Ghostcrawler on Pet Resilience
*yawn* It’s too early for me to add intelligent commentary, so I’ll just post what Ghostcrawler had to say about pet resilience on the WoW forums:
We certainly don’t think pet resilience is useless. We are considering increasing it to 100% of master’s resilience to make up for the increased AE damage pets will take in PvP. We don’t want pets to explode on contact (neither do we want pet classes to be twice as difficult to kill) but we did think it was a little goofy and unintuitive that pets could just shrug off AE attacks in PvP. We’d rather make pets tougher against all types of damage than be vulnerable to some and nearly immune to others.
He doesn’t mention if this is a chance they might make for Patch 3.3, but that would seem to me to be a reasonable time to make it.
49 Comments
It’s hard to say. But resilience in small numbers doesn’t really do a ton for you, though some is better then none. And it wasn’t goofy, though perhaps it was a little on the off side. But it was also necessary, and as testing continues I think Blizzard will HAVE to realize that. Then again, they don’t often change things from Test realm to live release. It’s more often then not that things go live, and THEN get changed, which is what I am expecting this time, when pets start randomly exploding in BGs. Then again if it doesn’t heavily affect the arena then I doubt they’ll fix it.
Palladiamors, are you suggesting a “Pet Explosion” command? That’s … well, horrible. :>
mmmm pet explosions…… mmmmm I’ve heard of exploding sheep, but this takes the cake lol… “suicide bombing pet”? I shudder at the thought of sending my pet straight to an enemy player or mob and explode on contact. Makes those animal balloons seem “tame” in comparison…. but then again… that’s how they are in a way right now in BG when they get killed rather easily.
PS… I mean no disparaging remarks on the “suicide bombing pets”…. what I mean to say is that I just feel that that’s the way I see pets when I send them in against another enemy player as they shred my pets before they get to me…. a small, stop-gap measure for a little more time on the field before you’re kiboshed and killed yourself.
*LAUGHS* No…..well, yes and no. Basically after this change goes through, sending your pet into any heavy battle where AoE is being tossed around will result in a pet seeming to randomly erupt into dead. Which basically means that the ‘attack’ command in those situations turns into the ‘explode’ command.
Omg an exploding pet!?! XD The image of Heero holding his breath to try and explode is hilarious, it’s even better when my ghost wolf comes up and goes “Don’t do it man, it’s not worth it.”
Ahem back to topic:
Well I do like the idea of pets scaling with resilence 100%, however, that was originally part of the whole “let pets scale with the Hunters’ stats period” promise that they held at Blizzcon. Now, full resilence, like most stats, the more you have the bigger the impact. However, if the pets scaled with all our stats….not so pet ‘splody?
It depends, really. Pets with the double buff going on tend to have a lot of hit points…..the question is, are they going to nerf base amounts in order for them to get all of our stats? It really all depends on what happens there. If it is a straight up buff, where all of our pets stats go up, then that should help with the ‘self destruct’ thing. Guess we’ll have to wait and see.
And something just occurred to me…..pet classes SHOULD be twice as hard to kill, IF you focus on the pet first! Saying that just makes it sound like they want pets to die fairly fast in PvP so that the player can get to the hunter or pet user themselves, and thats just ridiculous. Honestly, if your focusing on a pet before you focus on the player, then your doing it wrong, plain and simple. The only time you EVER focus on a pet first is if the player is safely out of range, or running away. This philosophy of GCs seems to indicate that they want to make life easier on the people who are stupid, and attacking the pet before the player, and that bugs the hell out of me.
Reminds me of a bg I was in on a lowbie ally drood of mine; a few of us were trying to kill a twinked out locks VW so the warlock couldn’t bubble- got laughed at by the ‘smarter’ players.. who just ran off and exploded like our new pets evidently! Bad joking aside, I haven’t been in a bg, speaking seriously here where I have NOT seen Ally OR Horde NOT attack a pet. I have seen them zerg minions, pets, elementals and tear them to shreds. I have also been part of this; either for safety reasons or otherwise.
But the thing is simple really, when your facing something that is a pet class, mostly locks, hunters and DK’s, depending on the specc or level or both or gear, killing the pet is far from just a stand alone stupid, or safe, move. You can cripple the other player entirely. I mean before the change when I played Zeldei, he was an affliction lock. And I played with a Felpup or Imp, no matter the BG.
People stupidly thought killing my demon would do anything; then they died to my dots even after I have been killed.
And now well still getting the hang of things as demo, but the point is really, if it’s a pet class that depends on the pet, you kill the pet you cripple the player. For the most part.
I just hope they don’t nerf double buffing. Mostly as if it can’t be buffed woukld they make it unhealable too. Slippery slope.
Exploding pets, oh my! Doesn’t some variation of ghoul explode? Now, if they make a command for pets to carry a grenade or trap in.. leave it and book it out, that’d be fun.
Does this 100% resil scaling mean they are going back on the promise to scale better with lots more stuff? :( I hope not. I wanted my pets to get more hp, maybe some agility, definately some crit.
As far as double buffs, a solution would be easy. If a pet got 100% from the hunter, make the pet unbuffable by player buffs. If the hunter has the buff, its essentially like the pet has it. (AND if they die, we dont have to beg for rebuffs! ;) I guess pet treats would either be exempt, or the hunter could eat the treats for his pet..rofl. I can see the wolf scowling in the corner as hunter eats up all his mammoth treats.
*Chuckles* Ryai, warlocks are probably the notable exception to the rule, though demonology still suffers. As a warlock, if your target can’t purge your DoTs, they are in for a world of hurt. However, for the most part you should never, EVER target a pet first, unless the hunter/pet class isn’t in easy range, or unless they are running away. You double the length of the fight by doing that.
And I am certainly not helpless without my pet! I can’t put out the sheer damage I can WITH my pet, of course, but I can still make some one hurt. And with lick your wounds and heart of the phoenix, it’s hard to keep my PvP pets dead.
Noba, my worry with that would be it being like imps, and have them be unhealable by players as well. If they could find a way to make it 100% without making pets unhealable then it’d be fine.
I’d point out that in many situations it won’t be as helpful as you think, Noba. Hunter pets are currently in the “Warrior” catagory for buffs, so they might get Kings/Might/Sanc, rather than Kings/Might/Wisdom the Hunters do…
Well I learned in bg that I can’t be front row so to speak Palla, and learned if you have something that screams BM, you’re gonna have your pet powermowed down.
Now that you know retridins can’t do that.
I just wish pvp could be more balanced, or that arena, BG pvp and pve would have their own set rules bleh.
And thought Imps were healable? Cause I mean I’ve killed the little buggers when locks stupidly leave them on defensive or have them attack a target O.o
I’m like bai for ur buffs mate /oneshot the normally nearly dead imp, then my pet zergs to lock and I just cackle/intimidate/tbw/pewpewpewwww
then you know die to a DK or Retri lolercoastin by
not that you know*
Retridins hurt so much some braincells died.
Imps are healable by the warlock Ryai, but last time I checked ((Which has admittedly been about a year)) not by other people, though I think AoE healing can heal them incidentally.
As for PvP being balanced….there was a time when it was more balanced, and at the same time less balanced. Right now every class has at least a spec that can PvP, while back in the day there were some classes that were more or less unsuited for it. PvP has always lent itself to the melee classes, though. I know I’ll probably get a lot of disagreement for that, but the melee classes are meant to take a beating without to much player interference ((Having to cast various shields on yourself is player interference, having boatloads of hit points is not.)) while caster classes tend to fold like paper when something gets close to them. Melee classes can do the brunt of their damage while moving, caster classes have to hold still to do the brunt of theirs. Melee classes have a full 2x critical multipier, casters have 1.5 unless talented, and most DoTs don’t critical without the appropriate talent ((Load of crap, that one.))
Casters advantage comes from range, but Wrath introduced so many ways for the melee classes to get back into range that it was unreal. So caster classes ((I am including hunters in that category, if you were wondering)) have lost the only real advantage they had, ESPECIALLY to the new class, Death knights. Death knights ((The well played ones, anyway.)) specialize in shutting down ranged attackers, with a ranged pull, a slow/snare, and a silence UNTALENTED. Don’t get me wrong, casters can hit like angry trains ((I’ve been criticaled by a boomkin for ever ten thousand damage before)) that doesn’t do you much good if you have to keep turning to target the player, or if your silenced and being constantly pounded on.
“Imps are healable by the warlock Ryai, but last time I checked ((Which has admittedly been about a year)) not by other people, though I think AoE healing can heal them incidentally.”
well imps are fully healable (and were at any time the last 4 years i played) by any healingclass with any single target heals IF the warlock is clever enough to take the imp out of phase shifting (and the healer have an ui where he actually can see the imp ;) most healers turn pet bars off in their ui …)
Any and all combat pets can be healed (although buffing them is a hit or miss one time…. I remember a time a priest or pally wasn’t able to buff them for a while on my server after they nerfed VWs when blizzard got wind of them being able to tank Sarth). The only problem with pet healing is that 85% of the cases, it’s the pet owner that heals them most of the time. And it’s also a sad truth that most healers would rather not waste mana on healing pets as pointed out by Seryth… so pet classes have to pay attention to their pets from time to time in a fight since it’s probably them that has to heal their pet…. and that can bring dps down a tad, but not much. One good thing blizzard got right was having pet healing as a DoT (though maddeningly slow at times) over being “channeled” the first time around. The only pet class that still channels healing is the Warlock… although they also have constant healing DoT’s via the synergy talent.
The DoT mend pet is still not really good enough on it’s own, I’m not really expecting a miracle but in BG? It’s mostly useless unless I manage to call my pet back to me in time. Outside of that? Useless. And unlike an MM or SV who really could have their pet with HotP without losing any dps or damage, I can’t, cause since my pet is such a big chunk of my dps or damage in any situation it has to have all the damage dealing talents it can do.
The reason they changed mend pet btw wasn’t just to make it ‘more appealing to heal in bg’ but the fact that there were hunters who would equip healing gear, and one did take down a boss of somewhere solo.
Just by spamming channeled mend pet.
And while I don’t expect healers to automatically heal my pet, I do love it when they do heal, or if my pet has died and I’m oom and having to drink and stare at my dead pet- them rezzing it for me.
And then also warlocks not only have the synergy talent, they can improve the channeled to reduce damage the minion takes. whee.
Hmm, I certainly wouldn’t want pets unhealable, no. Perhaps if pets remain buffable, but the (100?)% stats they derive from the master only include base stats AND gear, but NOT buffs on the hunter. I have no idea how they would code it, it’d probably be a pain in the @$$, so they likely wouldnt do it anyway.
This is just slightly off to the side, but I’d find it interesting if somewhere in the Beast Mastery tree, either aspect of the beast, or an amendment to Aspect of Viper, provided x% of damage you deal in healing to your pet. That may be helpful in situations where mend pet isn’t enough, and mr.meanhealer wont heal your best friend.
Seryth……uh, you may be right. I never thought of that. Cut me some slack, though! I’ve been tanking with my felguard and voidwalker and DPSing as my warlock for years now, so it isn’t like my imp spends a lot of time out, yanno? So that might have been an oversight on my part…..
As far as healing pets, I make it a point on my paladin to drop some love to pets every now and then. HOWEVER I do feel, both as a hunter and as a healer, that it is by and large the hunters responsibility to take care of their pet. Warlocks are the same, and I don’t even know that I consider ghouls to be real pets.
Oh,and a promised update on hunter PvP. Losing that eight seconds is murder, pure and simple. I honestly didn’t think it would be that bad, but…it is. On the flip side, I am not as scared of rogues anymore, though those fights are still hair raising to say the least.
And now something that is actually on topic, and that no PvP hunter here is going to like. Even with avoidance as it is, my pet is dying to incidental AoE damage. It isn’t common at the moment, but even with mend pet up my pet is losing over half of her health in large scale fights bunched around important areas. I don’t even want to think about what’s going to happen in 3.3.
My favorite thing of pet AI was watching my cat get kicked by Onyxia over and over again. Poor guy would run his paws back to the dragon, then immediately get kicked again.
Dunno, but we wouldn’t need as much AoE avoidance in PvE if our pets developed a brain. Though the comic relief isn’t bad.
Actually, something I noticed and may report if it continues happening, is that I have had several times when I command my pet to attack some one…..and she just stands there. For anywhere from ten to twenty seconds. Stands there and does nothing. Not even Spirit Strike. I’m trying to find out what triggers it, since it seems to just be random. I thought it might be the old ‘up against a wall’ bug, but I had one target standing out in the open, and my pet just sort of drooled at it. Really weird.
All this extended maintenance is draining our pets brains. Soon they’ll all either stand still, run into walls, or to embrace their rabid tendancies and turn on us.
There have been several documented incidents of donkeys and mules being used to deliver bombs.
Lebanon
After the 1982 invasion of Lebanon by Israel, Shiite militants turned to suicide attacks to drive out the Israeli army. On one occasion, a mule was used as a bomb carrier instead.
West Bank
One donkey was exploded near a checkpoint in the West Bank town of Bethlehem on January 26, 2003. No humans died in the attack, and it was uncertain as to whether the attack was meant specifically to kill Israeli soldiers; the attack coincided with Israeli advances into the Gaza Strip.
The attack did provoke a response from PETA president Ingrid Newkirk, who, after receiving many complaints, wrote a letter to Palestinian President Yasser Arafat asking him to encourage others to “leave the animals out of this conflict”. In the letter, she cited historical examples of US, UK, and Al Qaeda-sponsored abuses of other animals in conflicts, specifically noting dogs were simply left in Vietnam by the US during the Vietnam War, despite the fact that they were “loyal.” She concluded “Animals claim no nation. They are in perpetual involuntary servitude to all humankind, and although they pose no threat and own no weapons, human beings always win in the undeclared war against them. For animals, there is no Geneva Convention and no peace treaty—just our mercy.”
Iraq
In 2004, during the Iraq War, a donkey in Ramadi, Iraq was loaded with explosives and set off towards a US-run checkpoint. It exploded before it was able to injure or kill anyone but itself. The incident, along with a number of similar incidents involving dogs, fueled fears of terrorist practices of using living animals as weapons, a change from an older practice of using the bodies of dead animals to hold explosives.
A sick practice indeed.
Cotytto…..I wasn’t…..serious…….*LAUGHS*
HOWEVER, speaking of sick practice, back when seventy was the cap, my warlock used to cast seed of corruption on nearby critters as the battle started. I could do it a few seconds in advance of actually unleashing a salvo, and be almost guaranteed to get a good AoE off.
That being said, used to ghouls had an explosion command, and even now you can cast corpse explosion on your ghoul to get a greater-damage version of the spell that will still set off corpses if you have the glyph.
I do not, EVER want for hunters pets to be disposable in this way. EVER. I do not want hunters to get a buff for their pets being away or dead ((Unless it is BM specific and only for a period of time after the pets death)) and I do not EVER want us to be able to make our pets kamikaze.
What I WOULD love though is for beast masters to have a talent that lets their pets fight on for 20 seconds or so after the hunter dies. Give it an enraged buff, and cut it short if the hunter revives or is revived in that time period. Simple, fun, and it gives the hunters one more nasty tool in PvP.
You do know when we talked about exploding pets, it was in jest… right?
I already know terrorists are sick blips and use everything from women and children, to brainwashed idiots.
It’s why as an American I hate it when people say ‘o u r as bad as them ololololz’
/facepalm
At anyrate, it’s nice to know that you give a helping hand Palla, as I do agree it’s my responsibility to keep my pet alive, but I don’t turn down the help, as since I don’t have macros, and very few addons, my focus is usually either at the boss, or on my bar, seeing what is cooled down and what isn’t, then back at the boss for my SS ticking down, only occasionally do I manage to either throw out a mend pet or even glance in the direction of my pets.
I know it’s important to keep the tank alive- but as said, I don’t turn down the heals when given :)
And Palla, if you think that’s bad, I reported some of my own from AV.
And I am serious, it happened on my belf, took my gold skinned worm into a few AV matches and I was only one of the few with brains that you know … go and recap our towers..
.. cause like horde just can’t seem to do anything but zerg balinda on my server’s bg hub .-. no offense my hordies but yeah that’s how bad it is sometimes.
Anyways I’d send pet to go get the ally hiding out in the tower. zoom back, zoom forth, zoom back, zoom forth, and either A: zoom to the person or B: down the ramp and then TELEPORT. STRAIGHT. UP. You know seriously ‘beam me up scotty’ crap.
I think there’s also a problem with Charge and Spirit Strike, sometimes I have pet charge/strike, sometimes strike/charge, sometimes just strike and not use charge.
Why I dropped it on Jupiter and never picked it up again.
Edit: Yeah Palla, I found that out the hard way… I was in a bg, think it was AV, on my DK, and it was just my god just the lag and the people but there was a corpse, and this was when he was still unholy, I thought I targeted the corpse, I cast corpse explosion.
My pet exploded and I was all wtfbbq.
I mean as good as that can be they could have warned us lol.
I think Cotytto knows we were joking about exploding pets here, but I think it’s also valuable to realize that some people don’t have the admiration for animals that we do (or that I hope we do, as hunters) — and that in some contexts that, sadly, might not have been a joke.
Pretty much the same. I think I was in a fight with like four of the orcs from Hellfire while I was leveling….it was back before Corpse Explosion targeted the nearest corpse, and I THOUGHT I’d clicked on an orc corpse…..and boom goes Gravemaw…..and there is nothing about it anywhere. IT actually has a cast time when your ghoul uses it, least it did back then, where you can see them ‘casting’ corpse explosion on themselves.
But yea, I know how much of a pain it is to have no one heal your pet. I obviously won’t let my main targets die, but if I see a pet getting low on health and I have a moment, I will toss a heal their way.
Unfortunately Ryai, and I am not trying to defend the lazy or lousy healers, but raid damage comes in at a much faster clip now. Because of that my healing repertoire has been hurt ((Flash of light is now virtually useless, aside from the HoT portion when combined with shield of the righteous, because it just doesn’t heal for enough)) and we’re left with very few options. Holy paladins are 90% set up, 10% healing. Set up beacon of light, set up shield of the righteous, set up flash of HoT, holy light. Holy shock once in a blue moon. Pray you don’t run out of mana, because lord almighty does our mana regen suck, and our mana regen skill sucks the life out of healing. ((Oh but it is so perfect for DPS and tanking! Because, you know, retribution REALLY needs another mana regen, and it isn’t like tanks get back mana from being healed! Oh WAIT! They do! *Facepalm*))
From a PvP point of view, this is ridiculous. The BW/TBW nerf was heavy. Heavier then I thought it would be. The avoidance nerf……I throw up a little in my mouth just thinking about it. I am seriously coming to the conclusion that they want us to suck in PvP.
BUT…..and I mentioned this before, but I’ll go into detail now…..a rogue who picks on you at the wrong time now actually has a fight on their hands. Note that I didn’t say they are dead, but at the very least you won’t just stand there swaying while they eat you for breakfast.
Oh I know some people wouldn’t see it as a joke, Mania. I think most of the people who post and read here are serious about their pets, even if they are just pixels on a screen. My family owns 22 cats, three dogs, and one fish. Believe me, I love my animals.
BUT, I also grew up in the backwoods of NC, where you get….some….less then kind people. I am fully aware of the depths of some peoples depravity, and just how mean or flat out evil they can be in regards to animals. The practice of using animals in warfare goes back a long way, though the…..tactic of using them as expendable bombs is something we’ve only recently gotten depraved enough to try.
I am saying this right here, and right now. If WoW ever gets to the point where hunters have a skill that causes their pets to explode, I will quit then and there. There are some lines you do not cross with me, and that is one of them. Telling your rotting corpse of a ghoul to explode is just telling them to die again, and sacrifice your voidwalker is basically using your fel-contract to your own ends, but looking at what is supposed to be your life long companion, who trusts you entirely, and saying “Go be a good bomb for me, will you?” is not something I think I could stomach.
Yes I did understand that you were all joking about the exploding pets.
Just the talk of exploding animals jogged memories of “burro bombs”.
I am a virtual fount of useless and sometimes disturbing information.
More on topic, I do wish our pets would have an “enrage” effect if we are when we are getting our butts handed to us though.
For are we not Beast Mastery Hunters who have an even greater kinship to our pets more akin to a partnership than even other Hunters can achieve?
Cotytto, that’s really my thought on it. For all the talk of kinship and what have you between us and our pets, it’s really just the hunter putting everything into it. I think Masters Call is one of the few things the pet does for the hunter. I don’t know about any of you, but I have pets that, if some one attacks or even looks like they are going to threaten me, the pet will respond in kind. Two of our cats and all of our dogs are this way. It just makes sense that the WoW pets would have something similar. But what we get is….our pet being able to….release us from snares?? Maybe they chew through them?
…. the “gnome type escape from snare via pet” release would only work from a live pet… chances are in a BG, Master’s Call is a hit or miss… I remember BG being chaotic, and it still probably is. I don’t ever remember punching that particular spell often in a raid, probably because my pet is already dead during the first opening salvos into the fight…. unless I forget that I have the pet on passive and just drag him around with me for the furious howl buff…. MC still doesn’t prevent me from dying the moment I get out of a snare and right into something that’ll take me out. Master’s Call…. what the heck were the devs thinking when they brought in that one?
…. which brings me to something: most other classes have clearly defined defensive measures that work… what do we actually have that works?
Well, I can tell you not deterrence, and Disengage seems to like to be random. Like sometimes I’ll get the twenty yards, sometimes I’ll get twenty five yards, sometimes I’ll get ten yards, and sometimes I’ll bunny hop. Every now and then, I swear my character will jump about a half a foot upwards, and activate the cooldown. With nothing behind me. Masters call is actually very useful, IF your pet is in range. If. And if it’s not an easily reapplied Snare, IE all of them. So I guess it isn’t THAT useful. I’m going to hurt myself and say that now beastial wrath is a situationally useful defensive ability that should never be off cooldowns in the situations where it would be useful. Unless you’ve just been jumped before a big fight by a rogue, or have had more then a minute pass between large fights, your probably not going to see it having much use as a defensive tool.
Frost trap is actually an amazing defensive tool, and even more so if your in the midst of a bunch of other casters. Drop it, and watch the melee flounder around trying to attack SOMETHING. It is the most consistently useful of our defensive abilities against melee, but it can be circumnavigated fairly easily through any movement type abilities, such as death grip, charge/intercept, or shadowstep. It’s also next to useless against most casters ((Barring pets of said casters)) except the odd duck out that wants to get into melee range to slow your damage down.
Actually thinking back to the exploding your ghoul bit, I did ticket a GM.
Got the same old working as intended speech; but then again they did this when I ticketed THRALLMAR GUARDS KILLING A BELF DK. THEY KILLED HIM RIGHT INFRONT OF MY CHAR. I just kinda paled cause I have a DK! Then later the same day I saw CE guards zerging NON flagged DK’s!
bleh.
eh Palla… Frost trap is amazing, yes, and I agree that it’s one of our only defensive measure that actually works 100% of the time…..but it’s also “almost” useless with those that actually bothered to get the pvp trinket to get you out of things like that…. I used to BG heavily before Wrath came out and I know I hated those guys that can trinket out of stuns, snares almost right after I lay the trap down (before the days of frost arrow, mind you – it was not exactly subtle when you bend over to lay a trap down and usually everyone almost always expects that it’s either a snake trap – when it used to work and not the joke that it became later one – or a frost trap).
I guess that does answer which defensive measure we have that works 100% of the time (deterrence is barely working, Disengange is wonky, Wing clip is a joke, Concussive shot no longer stuns the target for a right amount of time) The crazy thing about this is…. Frost trap is the only one we have that works right at the moment… this worries me to no end because I know other classes have more than one defensive spell that actually works as advertised… Paladins have at least 3 that I know of, Mages have 3, Rogues have around 3, Priests have 2 or 3 depending on talents, Druids have have 3 or 4 depending on talents/build, Warriors have abt 2 or 3, and we have the new DK’s when they came out that have around 4 to 5 (3 of which are direct spells and not talents. I’m not even including the extra kick some racials give to each class in terms of defense.
…. yeah this worries me a lot.
Frost, not freezing Rowdy. I make that mistake all the time. Frost creates the patch of ice that slows all movement in the area by 50%, and freezing, well, freezes them. I find freezing to be useless, and frost to be useful. Not to mention you can chain traps now, which is situationally amazing. Now if only snake trap wasn’t so useless…..
I have actually had to redo my key binds recently. I’ve completely removed anything melee related from my hot keys, and added in traps and concussive shot. I don’t even bother wasting time trying to wingclip anymore. They more often then not hit frost trap, and I go flying for a questionable amount away from them. After that it becomes an interesting game of ‘who has what off cooldown’. If I have beastial wrath it is general a non-issue, since I can just concussive and kite around the frozen patch on the ground until most classes are dead. ((Note that this isn’t AS effective anymore, as I said previously that eight seconds hurt, a lot.)) This can be quasi-countered by charge/intercept, shadow step, and death grip, though if it’s done within five seconds I usually have enough time to scream like a girl and run away some more.
Then we have the other scenario, also known as BW being on cooldown. Masters call helps alleviate that, but it still becomes a much more uphill fight at that point. Your losing out on damage and on survivability, and you’d be surprised at how much. And you’d really be surprised how much difference 5% movement speed makes, since that’s the difference in our kindred spirits and retributions pursuit of justice.
Anyway, back to the point, if something is trying to kill you, then you have only a few counters, and one of those is situationally unreliable. Disengage, feign death as a target drop ((More useful then you’d think against mages and moonkin)) deterrence ((The worst stall move in the game….)) and our traps. I give traps credit for giving us good effects, but the fact remains that they are zero-range abilities that the enemy can just move around. Our ‘survivability’ comes mainly from the players ability to stay the hell away from an opponent. In other words, we aren’t handed an ability and told to “Use this to live” we are handed several lackluster abilities and told to ‘do your best.’. And mages bitch about blink and mana shield…..
I stand corrected *grin*
I gotta say that Snake Trap, can be the most fun situational spell in the game.
There are few things funnier than being killed in WSG, and watching your killer studder-step towards the flag carrier he is trying to reach… all the while he is making “uh, uhhh, uh” sounds from being hit 2 or 3 time a second by the snakes.
It useful, AND it’s about as much fun as you can have while dead… I hang around a few seconds before releasing my spirit and giggle EVERY time!
I loved snake traps… remember the time when they were actually considered as a very real threat? then blizzard broke it.
*chuckles* I didn’t say snake trap didn’t amuse me, Neutrallo, just that it wasn’t overly useful. A single AoE blast from anything will wipe them all out. And lets face it, who is going to waste a glyph slot to make them a teensy weensy bit more survivable?
OMG. just OMG. At the new patch notes and the Cower change. Just…wow… But i’ll save my rant for Mania’s future post.
I guess they really don’t think pets need an aggro drop…..I think that was them trying to save some face for the PvP crowd, to be honest.
… but … my pets do need aggro drops sometimes…
I’ve had to manually hit it, ofc not very often but I have had to hit it a few times in some runs…
._.
And Culling The Herd only giving 1/2/3? Why not 2/4/6 or 3/6/9 :/
Bah I say. Bah.
And poking at traps, I usually just lay down all three, Frost, Explosive and Snake, in the same spot. And naturally being BM on most of my alts, they aren’t given the same survivability as a SV would have but, I don’t think about that when I’m pvping.
Besides Frost trap saved Ryai’s rear end when a Commander killed her horse. THEN DIDNT DESPAWN. Urg.
Wish real DK’s were as ‘easy’ to kite.
just wanted to say a couple things, i noticed both masters call and snake trap getting slammed a bit, they are much more useful than you’d think, that and detterence. im SV spec with BM off spec, and i do great against all classes except tanks, due to mana shortage. detterence+ counterattack is a very useful combo, just today at halaa this rogue jumped me 3 times, every time i used prinket, added black arrow and SS, then detternce for guarenteed parry, (he used that multihit thing and all was parried rofl) then just counterattacked and he had to just it there while i shot him to death. as for snake trap, with the ensnare skill its funny watching some chump melee class trying to reach me, as after the ensnare is gone the crippling poisen is already in effect. Detterecne isnt only good with counterattack, its saved my hide verses mirror image from mages, and though nasty lock spells at the start of the fight as my pet beats on them. anyways, my point is its all about the timing as much as it is about the skills
Joecool, I am not referring to One on one PvP. And even if I were, your not really seeming to understand what I am trying to say. Our PvP tools are far less useful then other classes. I can attest to you that the rogue you beat was NOT that good if you weren’t at least three fourths of the way dead. He wasn’t popping vanish, dash, or any other number of critical PvP skills.
My point is, don’t talk to me personally about timing. I climb the latter of just about anyone who takes me on one on one. The thing is, I have OTHER classes at eighty, and I know how much easier it is to kill other players with, say, my death knight. Or my warlock. Or my retribution paladin. Or my warrior. Or ((I guess I should say especially)) my rogue. The amount of situational awareness required to PvP well as a hunter is a great deal higher then any of the other classes. Once you hit a certain level in PvP, most of the CC that a hunter can deploy becomes obsolete, due to trinkets, talents, and gear. I actually love masters call, but snake trap is absolute rubbish. It does next to no damage, and if a caster has some how managed to step on it in order to trigger the casting slow down, then you’ve just encountered a miracle. Or a caster who thinks getting into melee range of a hunter is a good idea, which is the occasional frost mage. If a melee is in range to step on it, then most likely your snared anyway, and if they can persist through the length of masters call or beastial wrath ((Beastial wrath is much more likely now, and the immunity on masters call is just ehish.)) then there is a good chance that your boned. Deterrence is the worst of the immunities in game, period. It is getting better come 3.3, but it’s still got the crappiest duration of an immunity, clocking in at five seconds compared to 12 and 10 seconds,AND YOU CAN NOT ATTACK. It’s ONLY advantage, as far as I know, is that it can’t be dispelled. I HAVE had that five seconds save me, but that was just when I was surrounded by people of my faction who were trying to kill “Insert melee class” before they killed me.
random question regarding Snake Trap: If they changed the glyph to 100% AOE immunity for the snakes, would that make it worth using in PVP?
also, i have a hunch that the change to Cower has to do with the change to Misdirection… honestly, should our pet need an agro drop if we can MD 300% as much threat?
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