PTR 3.1 – Build 9704
The Public Test Realm was updated today with build 9704. Blizzard has stated that there are no updated patch notes for this build, but nevertheless MMO Champion has identified possible changes, including:
- Beast Mastery
- Aspect of the Viper now requires a ranged weapon.
- Survival
- Trap Mastery now increases the duration of Frost Trap and Freezing Trap by 10% (Down from 20%), the periodic damage done by Immolatrion Trap, Explosive Trap, and Black Arrow by 10/20/30%, and increases the number of snakes summoned by Snake Trap by 30/60/90.
- Pet
- Stamped (Rhino) no longer knockbacks the target but causes it to take 25% additional damage from bleed effects for 1 min instead.
- Spore Cloud range was increased from 5 to 6 yards.
Keep in mind that these changes are derived from the client data and may or may not be intended by Blizzard.
I am very interested to hear about other potential changes. So if you’re on the PTR, let me know what you find!
172 Comments
You really want me swearing over here? And I am downloading the client now, I’ll let you know for sure in a little bit if the servers are up.
Well, I’d prefer if you didn’t *just* swear, but believe me I understand the desire to swear!
Mania:
It’s cause you want a 30 page discussion again right? XD
The only thing I can think the change to Stampede was for knocking PvPers off the cliff in AB. That’s it.
Ironically as I’m playing WoW, the 3 Days Grace “I Hate Everything About You” comes on. Fits my relationship with Blizzard at the moment perfectly.
So far it looks like they boosted stampedes damage, but the cooldown is still a minute or fourty two seconds longevity specced. The game ended up crashing and I am waiting for it to let me back in now.
Palla:
That cooldown is just ridiculous, is that with the BM talent (I forget what its called) Longevity?
They often seem to adjust the effect before they adjust the cooldown, so that might (hopefully) be changing. On the other hand, it does last a minute …
It’s fourty two seconds with longevity, like the old stamepede.
In response to 84 before, if you were using stamepede in instances then you were doing something wrong. I think Blizzard is starting to regret putting movement type effects into the game, and is working on removing or nerfing them. That, however, is just my theory.
The effects in PvP were awesome, and fun, and made Rhinos some of the best PvP pets, especially in combination with roar of sacrifice and intervene. Now…..why? Ferals have mangle and Arms has trauma, and I don’t know that rogues use their bleed all that often. And it isn’t like we can use our cats and our rhinos at the same time.
Testing of stamepe reveals that the ability is bugged. It applies the stampede debuff, but deals no damage.
Man, I knew the Rhino’s were going to get nerfed but DAMN IT why do they have to be nerfed so BAD!? Stampede was the reason I loved my Rhino, for the Knockback. And when I saw that they’d add a bleed to it I was overjoyed! To hear that they are removing the knockback just makes me want to roll my eyes and add another pet to the shelving list of the “Was Awesome but Blizzard hates it”
It doesn’t even get a bleed, Drakkena. It makes other bleeds 25% more effective for a minute.
Spore cloud range increased? Yay! Anything to help my poor little one from kicking back a “not in range” error when she tries to use it.
…maybe they’ll fix the rank that’s bugged while they’re at it?
That’s really terrible how they killed the rhino’s knock back ability!
Hmm..I may be wrong, but Stampede was the only pet ability with knockback, yes yes? It was unique, and clever, and I never got to experience it first hand. -sigh- Never tamed a rhino.
Hunters just can’t have fun things any more, can we?
Explosive Shot was a crazy AOE fun fest before it was nerfed into being a powerful (and now even that is going down the tubes) but generic addition to your cookie cutter damage rotation.
And let’s not even get into Rhino bowling. I don’t like the way they look enough to bother with one, but from what I gather now it’s something comparable to Savage Rend or some really generic, toss away skill like that.
Man. Blizz is ****ing up.
In other news, Cats now do twice as much damage with whatever their special is. Ten bucks says something to that effect will pop up in the next build.
It used to have the Bleed in this patch before this happened. And then they docked it out. I would LOVE using my Rhino when I had first tamed one for that knockback ability. It was amazing, sadly I dropped my Rhino in order to go after other things.
But seriously, a nerf to hell was what this did. A Rhino’s not even a good pet anymore, I mean… who uses BLEED anymore and for solo-hunters like myself I don’t have anything that can make my mobs Bleed on impact. Unless Blizzard is wanting to put in a new shot that does a Bleed damage as well.
@Raze: Hooray for hearing that! Blizzard and their cat love! (Don’t get me wrong, I love my Loque and Rak’Shiri) While Blizzard celebrates their cats I’ll go and just grumble about the nerf to Rhinos. Don’t mind me guys =D
Ah my bad, I’d read the actual text wrong and thought it was a bleed effect. Either way, it’s just annoying that they nerfed one of the good moves that made the Rhino well… a RHINO!
So an increase to bleed effects,… the MM tree has a bleed effect now, but then you couldn’t tame a rhino…whats the big idea? unless they move piercing shots up to at least 3rd tier, or make Rhinos no longer an exotic, there’s no use for that ability. BM has no bleed effects, you need to have 51 points just to tame it
I’m not really outraged, just confused
Well, at least in my 3 hunter group, if one of the BM’s use a Rhino, that might mesh well with the new bleed/piercing shots thing I’ll be getting.
O.O
“and increases the number of snakes summoned by Snake Trap by 30/60/90.”
I’m hoping that’s a simple % sign missing there, probably is…
But dang, 90 snakes popping out?! Craziness!!
# Beast Mastery
* Aspect of the Viper now requires a ranged weapon.
umm….heaven forbid hunters actually melee their mobs! Just that line alone under Beast Mastery seems like a joke at their expense…
(actually I do solo sometimes for mana regain or if I feel like conserving arrows. Was also great to throw viper up while training weapon skills…)
And that freeze trap reduction is strait-up pure lowbie hate… Trap mastery has become completely useless of a talent leveling or pvp now. Between that and the wyvern sting wackyness, I can see Blizz wanting SV to actually work more at CC (especally solo,) but these changes seem pretty far left field from what the clamoring has been lately (I’m surprised kill shot isn’t being kicked back 30%. Hell, it was given point blank range use a few builds ago wasn’t it?)
(and I don’t understand why they insist on letting you throw more snakes into the practical joke trap when they all still die in one AOE anyway. I get it! more humor!)
poor poor rhinos :(
they rocked on beta, first months on live they were still very entertaining but had a stat problem…
blizz fixed the stat problem and decreased knockback range…
then they let you knockback only one target and now the rhino ist just another useless tankpet…
no extra on survivability like turtles, no extra on aggro like croc, no pvp skills like crab and the new pummel gorilla and no usefull debuffs (for yourself) like worms…
they actually killed one of my favorite pets (again!, remember boars :<)
SNAKE TRAP IS OVER 9000!
Anyways… 90 glitched snakes…. oooooh boy that’s gonna be some fun.
Btw I think the glitch in snake trap filtered over to exploding sheep- cause now if I summon one before I fight on one of my hunter alts, the sheep just stands there. Eating dirt. Ignoring the fact it’s supposed to go blow itself up on that Kodo eating away at my pet..
/sigh
By the way does ANYONE ELSE FIND THIS FUNNY.
‘Beast Mastery
Aspect of the Viper now requires a ranged weapon.’
It’s like Improved Wing Clip. WHAT ARE THEY SMOKING. I mean seriously- how is this a BM change LOL WHAT.
….
.. I wanna swear but I shant cause I don’t wanna get my post edited or deleted. But.. auuuuurgaaaaal.
.. Arugal. I shall go gank Arugal or something. Yes.
Oh speaking of Kill Shot- is it actually fixed? I mean can you shoot it off from any range without having to do a dance? I kept forgetting to see for myself.
Hm… maybe Blizz wanted to make Rhino not to be >>That Pet<<. But where’s the fun in spending talents into BM and seeing as Blizz nerfs your exotics, because they are better than normal pet? Now BM sucks… I see no other point in being beast master than just loving to play that way ;/
rhino was not “that pet”, i have not seen any hunter using a rhino in the last ~1-2 months in both pve and pvp
it was a fun pet from the beginning, and now it´s no fun
Same, Rhino never really was the epix pet or whatever you were trying to hint at. I’ve only seen a Rhino tamed by another hunter horde side er, 3 times. Ally side about the same. I think part of the problem was it seemed to have a little bit less health than Aurelius v1 [she was originally a golden worm], and Aurelius was several levels lower, than the Rhino..
The other part of the problem, it’s a big bulky pet that like most tenacity pets at the time, could NOT tank more than one/3 mobs depending on hunter skill and MD.
TBH I think Rhino should be made Ferocity, and Mammoth’s made into a Tenacity pet with a racial like STOMP. SQUASHES MOB DEAD.
Mean we can tame rhinos. We can tame saber toothed cats. Raptors. Devilsaurs… COME ON BLIZZARD GIEF MAMMOTH.
Frankly… when i first got the xpac all i did was tame a rhino and have fun with it… sorta… i didnt like the knockback because i always stood at max range so had to move up everytime he used it… it is a cool pet, but the more effectiveness to bleeds makes it more viable in say a heroic with a warrior or other bleed causing class… maybe in a raid, if ur not a major raiding guild… cuz i would prolly get booted if i brought a rhino to Naxx or Maly 25. lol
and commenting on ryais post… i think rhinos should actually be put in cunning… and that Mammoths get into Tenacity and have like a demorilizing shout ability with their trunks, or trunk swing that knocks down 3-5 enemies in front of him. or even Tusk impalement…
Damn it Stampede without Knockback ffs…
Well, this is the way I see it….. Hunters are my favorite classes. They used to be a lot of fun to play. Some of the pets were really fun to have. But, with all the nerfing they have done to pets, all that fun is gone. Pets are also a joke anymore. It’s very frustrating because hunters are 2-3 hit squishes in pvp, as are the pets. So, a hunter in Bg’s is worthless. As for raids, hunters keep getting nerf. On my server, if you are a hunter, you are almost guarenteed nott o get into raid. I have been told many times that i couldn;t come because hunters just don’t do enough dps. Now, i do about 3.6K dps, and I am not fully geared, but when locks and mages, and even fury warriors are out-dpsing a dps class, something is wrong. The only time I get to go on raids is when “weaker” players are in the raid and I may actually be higher dps than them. This is what i don’t understand: If hunters are supposed to be a dps class, why keep nerfing our dps. Blizz says “hunters needed nerfed because they are dominating the dps charts”. AND??? That’s what hunters do! We can’t tank, we can’t heal. ALL WE CAN DO IS DPS! So, why take our one “use” away from us. Blizz really needs to get it’s head out of it’s @$$. It’s kinda lake telling a vineyard ” you have all these grapes, now we are gonn mae it so you can only make tequilla”. I am frustreated to the point that….
I went out and bought City of Heroes / City of Villians the other day and have been playing it. I actually like it better than WoW right now. So, in a few days when my playtime ends, i won;t be renewing it for WoW. I will start playing CoH/CoV. Good job Blizz you lost another customer. And while I am at it, the guy who was working the electronics store said he has seena lot of regulars switch from WoW to other games! Grats Blizz, you are killing yourself.
Well crud. So much for rhino bowling and knocking folks off the AV bridge.
Last time i had a Sporebat it had problems with auto-casting Spore Cloud…
Is that fixed?
My thought that 3.1 would bring hunters equality among trees is fading. But hopefully we will get there sooner or later.
/sigh
And does this change AoV mean I can only be shooting and regain mana? It might be a dumb question lol but I hope that is not what it means.
Icecrystal: Spore Cloud Rank 5 is bugged.
When your sporebat gets to 80, it will learn Rank 6 and will auto-cast Spore Cloud.
YAY! I love these changes to Rhino. I run in a group of three hunters, and we’ve thought about picking up a Rhino, but we didn’t want the knockback to cause issues with pushing mobs into other groups and pulling adds. Now this means we can have a Rhino tank for us, while a Cat and Raptor do extra DPS with their bleed effects.
This is so depressing. 3.1 makes me want to cry.
+90 snakes out of snake trap?! Whaaaaaaat? Someone please test that? Combine that with the promised Glyph of Snake Trap, which makes snakes take 90% less damage from AoE, and it becomes insane.
I am thinking that this must be a typo, and the talent will reduce the AoE damage that snakes take by 30/60/90.
I think they mean 90% more snakes? So almost double the number of snakes. If thats the case, wooooo. Cause we all use Snake Trap right?
(And yes, along with my bug fear, I do have an Indiana Jones complex (I HATE SNAKES!) *cough*)
Honestly, Blizzard tries these knockback things every so often and then doesn’t like it. So I’m not surprised. Unfortunately,this really mitigates using a rhino now other than using a tenacity pet in general. I mean, extra bleed damage? What the sam hell is that good for? Let’s be honest, hunters solo 90% of the time, where are we gonna get a bleed effect; the off-chance we group with another rogue or hunter who has a cat? So what does Blizzard expect, a bunch of Hunters to raid with a rhino (cause now they have 5% increased damage too!) so that the rogues and cat-druids and Hunter-cats have extra bleed damage?
Oh yes, how did I fail to see that? It’s genius, I guess all Hunter pets are completely viable now.
/endsarcasm
No I haven’t had the morning cup of hot chocolate, I’m extra sarcastic at the moment *cough*
Ithaquah, why would you have used a rhino? Beforehand, a gorilla probably would have done much better, and now pretty much anything can do it. The nerf to stampede is a stupid one, plain and simple, and twenty five percent additional bleed damage to the already low bleed of rake and savage rend isn’t going to add much. I’m not trying to be negative, or snarky at you, but the nerf isn’t a good thing at all.
Gimlion, the problem with that is that arms warriors, the bleed heavy warrior tree, get trauma, so that everytime they critical the effectiveness of their bleeds goes up 30%. Now, correct me if I am wrong, but I don’t think Blizzard is going to have them stack, since, you know, that’s their newest thing, non-exclusive buffs and debuffs.
Dweezil:
You’re absolutely correct. I’ve actually been playing the free stuff like Perfect World and Mabinogi (I know I know! Hush!) and been having a good time. In some ways the patch will bring me back in though. Not cause of the changes, but because of the mounts (Alliance first Mountain O’ Mounts for my realm (hopeful)XD)
no BM changes makes me sad =(, im starting to think when GC said that BM are gonna get some big changes if thats all false..
Ugh, bleeds are bad! Ah well you always knew rhino knockback was too good to be true. /sigh
I’m probably in the same boat with you, Dweezil. I hardly ever log on anymore. I just don’t enjoy the game like I used to. Warhammer is feeling alright, I just need to find a server that has consistent skirmishes up so I can level. But yes, honestly, Blizzard is starting to lose customers in a bit of a hurry now, and I don’t think 3.1 is going to stop that. Blizzard is stretching themselves to thin, and not doing good work on specific areas. When it was PvE and PvP back in the day, that was one thing. Now it’s PvE, PvP, Arena, vehicle combat, and probably another contrived nusance they’ve thought of that I can’t remember.
Warcraft will remain on top for a while, of that you can be sure. It is easy to get into, pretty fun, and a metric ton of people play it. But the end game isn’t what it was, even in TBC, and people are going to realize it when they get there. Many vets are already abandoning ship, and a lot of Blizzards buisness right now comes from multi-botters with multiple accounts. Those, in turn, often fuel new people who want to play but don’t want to work at leveling a character. Which in turn dilutes the quality of players at end game, which, as I said before, is already suffering. It’s a viscious, nasty cycle.
Mooshimooshi :
BM hunters got big changes. We got new talents that are almost completely useless. But we got new talents and changes to how our spec works. So we got big changes, just not how we’d like ‘em.
This is way off topic but I finally respecced my Pally into well a better Retri specc than the first I had him and well .. jesus christ is he barely going oom. It’s just wham bam wham bam wham bam judgement wham bam wham judgement wham bam- you get the picture… but his DPS doesn’t suffer when he gets mana back..
… why does AotV have to hurt our dps?
I’m sorry I just, don’t get why it came with a debuff like it does anymore :/
Another thing! And my double. Is that hunters were supposed to recieve HUGE changes to their melee this patch, to help with survivability. It was all GC talked about there for a while, making hunters more viable when something closed with them, making it so hunters weren’t dead on contact, blah blah blah. Have we even gotten any major changes this patch? We got the pretty good wild hunt pet talent, and tenacity got thunderstomp. The rest was a jumble of little things and new meh talents for pets. But nothing on our supposed increase in survivability in melee or anything.
Hm. With the wording for the AotV change, it SOUNDS like you’d just need a ranged weapon equipped, period, for it to work. But that’s just weird. Alternatively, it could mean that you can only regain mana by shooting things, and not by meleeing… in which case I’d assume (read: hope) that the flat mana regen rate still applies. Which sucks for those of us who like to melee things for mana when solo instead of using up arrows.
Rhino changes are fail and don’t make sense though :/ I’d like to see maybe a horn impale of some sort, perhaps, or some sort of chargey, trampley ability, but a bonus-to-bleeds buff on a spec that can’t even make things bleed without switching pets is… just weird. It’s not like you should be bringing your rhino to a raid, anyway, where it could maybe be useful in combination with other classes…
I always thought pure DPS classes should always top the DPS charts.
No more Rhino bowling… I had thoughts of getting a Rhino, but now it looks like they’re useless. To me at least. I don’t use a Rhino, but still. They don’t even have a bleed effect! So what’s the point of giving that that ability?
I know I don’t log on as much as I used to anymore and I likely won’t until the next patch.
Meh.
So, if you’re dismantlol’d you lose your mana regen?
Well, I am a bit saddened by this. People are leaving WoW? :(
Yeah, the Rhino nerf is kinda lame, but I never really see anyone with Rhinos anyway. And I never use AotV, perhaps I should…
I do not get technical when I play, because when I play, I PLAY. I don’t power-level or farm, I just log in and go crazy, pretty much. I enjoy the lore and the environment, explore new places… So I’m really not sure where most of the Patch Note stuff comes from, as I don’t really pay attention or keep track of it. This is the only videogame I play, so I don’t have much at all to compare it to.
Blizzard is getting a bit in over their heads I think. They make these mistakes, and instead of actively fixing them, they try to work around them and ignore the initial problem. I am just going to hope that they get themselves out of this.
I also hear that there will be two other expansions before Blizzard is done with WoW. I have nothing to confirm this, but if it is true, seeing all these problems, I just don’t see how they can keep it up.
It’s a great game, I hope it turns out for the best. :)
So the Rhino’s new ability is NOT a bleed itself, but boosts bleed damage? BM hunters cant do bleed damage… nor can a rhino. This doesn’t make sense, unless its some off the wall 2v2 strategy idea… Because no one brings tenacities to raids, so it wouldnt benefit the group. And, as BMs have to fight for their right to play to start with(ie, not SV), sacrificing their pet’s special for ONLY SOMEONE ELSE’s dps gain, will make BM look even lower on the dps charts. :(
But who knows, maybe blizz intends to sneak in a bleed hunter shot for all specs.
As for all the leaving comments, i know what you mean. Regular and Heroic 80 instances are just… easy. So easy, unless your group is ridiculously bad. There’s no challenge and nothing to work for. I can’t speak to most raiding, though, because of scheduling difficulties. But in BC I had to TRY in heroics. It wasnt oh, i’ll zip through this while im eating, watching tv, and giving my dog a haircut at the same time. :/
From what palla and Ri said, it’s true, there’s something about wow that isn’t what wow once was anymore, and i’ve only been a hunter, hunter will forever be my fav class and bm is being forced into the dirt at the moment, but we shouldn’t be concluding that this is like, exact. :P
Once Aion comes out, I too may be leaving WoW, just cause they sort of seem like they don’t know what to do with the game anymore.
I mean if everyone remembers when exotics were coming out they said they didn’t want to make them better than normal pets but they turned out that way anyway, and now they’re trying to make them better Oo Oh and what’s with these rumors i’ve been hearing about cookie cutting us into needing to have a spirit beast because it now will be the ‘best’ dps pet ever?
Ah, poor, poor Blizzard. Don’t you know that it’s impossible to perfectly balance all classes and specs? Don’t you know that if you try your best, players of all kinds are gonna QQ? Poor, poor Blizzard.
Erm, sorry about that. I got a bit tired of months and months of the players moaning that Blizzard is lame. All classes, all specs. It gets old quickly, y’know? Yes, those nerfs are nasty. Yes, I’m saddened that hunters have nearly nothing special going for them. All the same, I still love playing hunters. I still adapt… and I KNOW that things WILL get better. Soon? Perhaps not. But they will come. Just hang in there, fellow hunters!
@Palla – We are getting the Raptor Strike Glyph giving 20% damage reduction for 3 secs after a Raptor strike. It is a melee improvement but I agree its hardly sweeping changes!
Im still playing wow but I log less than I did and try to find excuses to leave early. I tried Warhammer and CoH/CoV. Great games but lacked the same size community. I have high hopes for Champions Online due out soon(ish) which replaces CoH with a more advanced version of the game.
Hint to Blizzard – the word VANILLA has become synonomous with BORING for a reason: people like variety. Vanilla WoW is boring WoW.
When will Blizzard developers realize that each class should have SOMETHING unique and some at which it excels. Hunters should do things nobody else can; same with Rohues, ‘Locks and so on. Its not a crime for pure DPS class to top the charts; its the way it should be. Why should hybrid classes or classes that can fulfill more than one role (e.g. Druids, Palys, DKs, Warriors) be tops? Hunters cannot tank, we cannot heal, our CC in marginal at best. There is NOTHING else for us to do. Its not a negative for only hunters to misdirect, or only Shamans to have windfury. Every class should not only be raid viable, but be raid vital depending on the guild’s play style. If you’re not a plate wearing class or a druid, Blizz has no love for you.
Been playing less and less WoW since 3.0.8 and more City of Heroes. Shame to have all that T7.5 & 25 man gear only to see Blazzard just nerf you to the point you feel like a foam rubber ball.
Geez, what are they smoking there in Blizzard-town? Somebody check them into rehab, STAT! A lot of the changes do NOT make sense…. Aspect of the Viper was fine come BC with a steady mana regen without the annoying debuff that halves your damage……….. THEN they screwed that up come expansion with the hunter class along with it…. but to require a ranged weapon for it to work???? Kinda a bit redundant because we ALWAYS have a ranged weapon, we’re a ranged class fer crying out loud. Yep, they’re losing it. I’ve read the forums, I’ve read the arguments….. it seems no one is really listening. Is it me or with every other complaint, they answer with another nerf or nonsensical buff? Noba is right in saying that nowhere in the BM tree do we see a talent/spell that gives a bleed effect….. if there was to be one, I would place it in FRENZY and change its 100% chance 30% attack speed change to add not only attack speed but a bleed effect along with it…. the new Rhino special is useless unless you have someone else along to provide the bleed effect for you.
I’ll never get the nerf to the Rhino…. Stampede made sense because when something that big runs full tilt into you, you do expect to be thrown back from the impact — and that really does happen in the real world, so why not anymore in wow with their purported “Spirit of the game” they’ve been spouting since day 1? Too real for them? People in PVP complaining because of the knockbacks? It’s almost funny in my head to imagine something that massive come barreling towards you to stop on a dime and just go “scratch” for the small bleed effect buff…. it’s like expecting a haymaker punch and getting the smallest digit patting your face instead. Where is the damage in that?
As for snake traps, I used to enjoy the way I farmed Scarlet Monastery with that going off, it actually kills everything when you’re level 70 that time in BC….. now it’s lackluster. There was one time I took a group of lowbies in there and the remaining snakes actually killed Whitemane after it killed Mograine before she could resurrect him for round two that we had to reset the whole instance just for them to get credit for it (I kinda got the bright idea to put the trap right where the commander’s direct path took him to get to us and when it took him down, she would walk out. When she did, she fell real FAST right out the door from them crazy snakes before reaching Mograine. now that’s stopping power hehehe).
In a group with a warr, kitty, and rogue, the rhino will be their savior, and every boss’s nightmare. ..Or at least the ones that bleed.
Assuming you can see the boss around your hulking monstrosity of a pet … *grin*
I guess that’s why they make bosses so big!
/sigh
The MAIN reson I started playing wow was because you get to play with a pet. Some reason for play Guild Wars PETS. I love playing with pets and developing a realsionship them, waching them grow with me. If there were more games out there where you got to have a permenent NON-COOKIE cutter pets I would so be all over it. WoW used to be fun people would INVITE me to groups with out me asking because they needed a dps class that could hold its own. Now they just look at me and say meh its just another hunter find some one elts. I mostly play alone my pets make me feal less that way. But I want to enjoy end game stuff to, how can I when they keep makeing us more and more useless. I didnt get to see end stuff normal wow, bc, and now I’m yet again being left behind in wothlk. My honey on the other hand is being clamored over he plays a tank, he gets to see every thing. Wow just what I want to play…..an over dressed thug.
/sigh
I tryed out Lord of the rings it was meh. Then Everquest two. EVERQUEST for peats sake…..oh blizzard what have you make me sink to.
All I did on PTR was the Argent Tournament but it gets kinda boring after that, I know I’m being nerfed in BM and Surv is weird, but I like BM and Blizzard is being very confusing with the changes (“BM seems to be ok” [Most likely Theroy numbers since the 40% AP was bugged to double the AP causing pets to insane DPS], then they nerf the AP% to 20% and haven’t touched it since) I’ve been just been playing Xbox games and waiting for a patch where they fix stuff and add whats been promised.
Too bad, Blizzard is just a copy-cat company
They never did anything original – and with WoW they even copied all those major faults done by Verant/Sony (that where fixed by Sony several years ago *eg*).
It shows, they can’t handle change, they are unable to fix whats obviously broken, they have no clue about their ‘own’ game…
I will give the game a chance, if 3.1.9 hits the customers – maybe by then Blizzard gets something right :(
Perhaps they move eSports to a world of its own – no longer destroying the game.
Ghanur
Playing EVE online atm – nice game ;)
I — like many of you — have an amazing amount of opinion on how well Blizzard is doing right now vis-a-vis other MMO companies. However, let’s keep the discussion a bit more on topic for this post, ‘kay?
edit: That came out more harsh than I intended. I know I’m in need of some venting right now, and if this is the place then this is the place. :> But there really is an awful lot to say about Blizzard and other MMOs in general, and I’d prefer if we kept the venting in this thread a little more focused on what’s coming up in WoW for hunters and pets … if possible. But if it’s not possible, if you really need to vent … I’m not going to yell at you.
what?! they nerf rhino knockback then buff sporebats? someone alert BRK!!!!!!
Sorry Kikaku, but the bleed effect doesn’t stack with other bleed effects as far as I know, and Mangle and Trauma both have a higher rate of increase for bleed effects then Stampede.
Watermist, how long have you been playing WoW now? I’ve been with this game for about four years now. Some times its up, and sometimes its down, but lately, it is more down for me then up. It isn’t QQ. In fact this particular change is fairly minor compared to some in the past. It’s just another stupid change for another stupid reason. It gets old. And after putting up with it for so long, many of the older players are just plain tired of it. If you have been playing for a while now, then maybe your just more patient. But I have multiple high levels at this point, and honestly, none of them are all that fun for me anymore. It’s change after change after often pointless change.
Back on topic, I’ll test it in a bit, but it sounds like aspect of the viper just needs a ranged weapon equipped for regen, BUT they might have cut out melee mana regen for some unknown and ridiculous reason.
*raises an eyebrow at Mania* My friend, this is your blog. You have every right, and more to vent here. Also consider making a new thread with a topic focused on venting there, so that we can focus more on the test realms here. I think some of the older players are more then a little pissed about Blizzards changes of late. Some of them HAVE been good, don’t get me wrong, but so many others have been flat out bad or them trying to make up for previous screw ups. We all know it gets a bit old after a while, Mania.
Aspect of the viper still regens mana in melee, at least. For my triple. *Facepalm*
I am going to do a fourth post because I want to give some hope to hunters. In beastial wrath, after a critical, with five stacks of rabid and call of the wild, my wolf hit 1,050 DPS. Normal attacks were hitting for 650 damage, bite for 600, and both were criticaling for upwards and over 1,200. I do NOT have the best gear in the world, at all, basic level eighty blues with an epic gun. So that is something to look forward to at least.
Mania:
What Palla said, it’s your blog. It didn’t seem harsh to me at all, but I’m rather thick skinned so I may be biased.
In any case, one must remember that we always think negatively more often than we do good. I mean sure, right now it doesn’t look good for Hunters. But keep in mind this patch really isn’t about us, or any other class! It’s about Ulduar! This is Blizzard’s first big raid instance in quite awhile, they are and will be focusing on their attention on that for the PTR. Eventually we’ll get our proper buffs and whatnot.
We didn’t think we’d actually see pets get new family skills did we?
Or, pet talent points….
Or, new pet families….
Give it some time, everything always works out. You get nerfed, then you get buffed, and then nerfed again. It’s the circle of MMO-Life.
Two things real quick… One is about pets, one is about Blizz in general. Sorry Mania, i really have to vent about this one.
First, I jst logged into WoW, and started a 25 man Naxx. about half way through, I kept getting disconnected. Everytime I reconnected, i would get booted again 5 minutes later. turns out, it was happing to half the raid. WAY TO GO BLIZZ! Just another reason for me to switch over. they can’t even keep their servers upand running… after a full day of maintainance on Teusday no less.
Second, looking back on things, I actually liked pets better beforethe xpac. I could invest points in what i wanted my pet to have. My pet spider was a great dps pet. Now, i don’t even have one in my stables. I would love to see things go back to the way they were. the only thing I really like is that a pet won;t leave you. So,i guess Blizz did ONE thing right when they made this mess we call 3.0. Well, since I can’t get back on WoW, it’s time to play some CoH.
Oh yeah, Masterminds and henchman on CoH seems so much more fun that Hunter and pet on WoW. Since Blizz can’t coe up with anything original, maybe they should take a look at the CoH concept. I do like how WoW pets look, but not how they play.
Rikaku,
“In any case, one must remember that we always think negatively more often than we do good. I mean sure, right now it doesn’t look good for Hunters. But keep in mind this patch really isn’t about us, or any other class! It’s about Ulduar! This is Blizzard’s first big raid instance in quite awhile, they are and will be focusing on their attention on that for the PTR. Eventually we’ll get our proper buffs and whatnot.”
OK, and while we are at the bottom of the totempole, we will be passed up for these new raids in favor of higher dps. Even if we do get buffed, we will be so far behind, gear-wise, that we will be passed over for higher dps. It’s viscous cycle. Can’t do equal dps because of the hunter build, can’t do equal dps because we aren’t geared. I don;t think pets are s much the problem. I think it’s more the hunter. I have said it before,i will say it again… you have the greatest pet in the world, but i won;t do a lick of difference if the hunters dies in 3 hits.
See, that’s not entirely my problem, Dweezil. Blizzard seems to be forgetting that fun and functional aren’t the same thing. The addition of Wild Hunt adds a very important increase in pet DPS AND survivability. It is very functional, if not exactly a fun talent. I full expect it to be nerfed as it stands. Stampede, on the other hand, was only really functional in PvP, but it was FUN. The new stampede is neither fun NOR functional, UNLESS it stacks with the mangle or trauma debuffs, which I highly doubt. Black arrow, last I checked, shares a cooldown with traps, but is fun AND functional.
I guess I am just tired of so much of the fun factor being taken out because of complaints or stupid reasons. I understand the need for functionality, but most of Blizzards fixes, buffs, or nerfs end up destroying a part of the fun factor, at least for me.
Dweezil:
“OK, and while we are at the bottom of the totempole, we will be passed up for these new raids in favor of higher dps. Even if we do get buffed, we will be so far behind, gear-wise, that we will be passed over for higher dps. It’s viscous cycle. Can’t do equal dps because of the hunter build, can’t do equal dps because we aren’t geared. I don;t think pets are s much the problem. I think it’s more the hunter. I have said it before,i will say it again… you have the greatest pet in the world, but i won;t do a lick of difference if the hunters dies in 3 hits.”
I’m not sure what numbers you’ve been looking at, but Hunter is *not* going to be bottom of the dps totem pole. I’ve ran parts of Uldaur and full Naxx on the PTR. I was nowhere near the bottom. I was beaten by a few SV Hunters and Mages, but that’s it. No offense, but if you’re at the bottom of the raid dps chart, unless you’re severely under-geared for the raid compared to your fellows, you need to perfect your shot rotations and gear.
Backing up Rikaku, I haven’t had a problem with dying in three hits. As long as I’m fairly alert in PvP, it actually takes quite a bit to kill me. I stand toe to toe with other ranged attackers, often better equipped, and tend to come out on top. Survival hunters, marksmen hunters, mages, warlocks, the occasional shadow priest or elemental shaman. Balance druids can give me a run for my money, though, and demonology warlocks who take me by surprise ((Yes, I know. I should be more aware of a big blue flaming demon charging at me.)) can give me a small hassle due to the damage of immolation aura, but otherwise I’m not in any large amount of danger one on one in PvP from other ranged ‘casters’.
Melee is another story, of course, but we won’t go there.
Suffice to say that certain aspects of this patch will make things better. Increased pet surivability and a small bit of personal survivablity increase through a glyph. It just doesn’t FEEL fun.
how about taking the debuff off viper
enough already
dweezil-
“Second, looking back on things, I actually liked pets better beforethe xpac. I could invest points in what i wanted my pet to have. My pet spider was a great dps pet. Now, i don’t even have one in my stables.”
who cares if it isnt a high dps pet… no one is saying u can only have high dps pets in ur stables… get pets u like… not just high dps ones… and no, the new way is MUCH better IMHO because there is no more temp pets for certain abilities u want on ur pets…. that made me really annoyed.
@ Palla [ontopic and offtopic.. or would that be off n off.. anyways]
When you pvp with your hunter, are you using pvp gear or pve gear? I’m kinda well… lazy and cheap atm and not really wanting to spend 500+g on gems on pvp armor that makes me go bleh- not like I have the marks or the honor for it.
Does res really help that much against damage? Cause me pre wrath I really never noticed any difference with or without nearly all of the pvp set I got [the lv 70 set].
And er do you know a good build for a protdin? Since I’ve gotten back into the swing of playing a paladin, and with the dual speccing feature being implimented in 3.1, and with how ‘easy’ I’ve seen paladins have it for tanking, I decided to start to get into the swing of things for tanking, as well as dpsing. I know this has nothing to do with hunters and I don’t really want to be seen as abandoning my hunter alts or main as I’m not, just .. wanna play something not a warlock while I wait for them to fix hunters.
And also- backing up Rikaku too. Outside of pvp, in instances I DON’T die in three hits. Hell in one UP instance where everything went pearshaped after we downed erf… you know the guy with the blue proto drake? Ska…. something? /airheadmoment, anyways the tank lagged out of sight of the healer- died. So suddenly everything is coming AT ME and I’m like oh crap F- wait if I FD the rogue and hunter and other healer will eat it!
so I KITE them away and let the healer focus on the rogue/other hunter who beat down one of the mobs and let poor Aurelius take a beating as I kite the other two away and then it just gets insane and I’m forced to Disengage/FD and then all a sudden TANK TWO HEROIC MOBS.
So I think ok screw this, I ain’t going down with a fight and I start meleeing the CRAP out of everything, hitting traps and lifeblood and raptor strike and etc.. and deterence for a moment to let the paladin be able to spam heal me.
All in all for a near wipe it was the most fun one I had in a while 8D
But if you’re dying in three hits PVE wise, you’re NOT playing right, we have several ways to survive- it’s not like the healer is ignoring you and letting you die from poison. You have three ways to save yourself instance/pve wise, disengage, deterrence and FD.
But pvp wise .. depending on the classes that get you yeah it can be a 1/2/3 strikes you’re out.
Right now my hunter is in a combination of PvE and PvP gear. I was collecting PvP but I’ve not been playing much lately. Resilience does help with damage, and can knock the tar out of DoT damage and critical damage. Against high resilience players I’ve seen my serpent sting cut from 510 damage a tick to 300 or so. I hate resilience personally, because having a dividing stat between PvP and PvE is just plain stupid.
I’ll go spec up a protection paladin in a moment and then post it here for Mania to save from the gutter later.
wait wait wait….. it adds 30/60/90 snakes?????
no. I’m fairly certain its 30% 60% 90%
Yeah I hate it too- mean sure it hurts when people 1/2 shot me in lower level pvp [mostly 60 bracket as rarely does anyone have res gear or gem options], but I can/could 1/2 shot them.. somewhat, back.
But just never knew how big a difference it added to damage reduction.. -200 or so is alot.
And thanks Palla.
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?paladin=00000000000000000000000000050051350315232103331230150230050022000000000000000&glyph=000000000000&version=9704
Just a preliminary, I’d have to test it to see how it works. This is a tanking build, not a PvP tank build, hence not going for the hammer of justice decreases. Vindication in protection could be traded out for eye for an eye, in fact against bosses eye for an eye would be better anyway. Divinity really should be in holy, and I feel personally like stoicsm and guardians favor are more PvP oriented abilities, since the cooldown on hand of protection pretty much insures it won’t be used every fight. And if you NEED it every fight, your doing something wrong, and that minute less cooldown ain’t gonna save you.
My problem in PvP is gear. At lvl 80, I have a bunch of decent blues, some crafted purples, and a smattering of nice greens. I would say my gear is great for someone who does mostly non-raid stuff.
However, since BG’s are capped at 80, you end up with a bottleneck where some 80′s are geared like they just hit 80, and some 80′s are geared like they have been running Naxxramas since the expansion came out. The gear difference is as huge in the end-game PvP as a bunch of levels.
I would LOVE to se them put in BG’s where you came in with no gear, and got a set amount of tokens to buy gear in the BG with. That would make it a lot more about skill, and less about how many nights per week you can devote 3+ hours to raiding. I am HOPING that this is what the current tournament is a precursor to…..
The above was inspired by Ryai’s post about being hit super-hard in BG’s. In Wintergrasp, it is not uncommon for me to get critted by an Icy Touch for around 5k, and that is only a DK’s opening move :(
Well as I’ve said, and others have said, and others have agreed when me when I have said as I agreed with others who said this.
PVP will only ever truly be balanced if, when in a BG, you are stripped naked of your attacks, weapons, gear, enchants and talents. You are given a loin cloth/toga to cover yourself with and your weapon of choice is STICK.
Then you just have fun chasing people down hitting people with your stick.
But then we’d get people qqing or something about that even.
agreed with me*
I can not write while half asleep, leveling my pally and listening to music 8D
But that isn’t balance….it’s…..pokey pokey. But you are right. Some classes just have more of an advantage then others. Honestly, a well played hunter can have an extreme advantage……but those advantages are quickly being taken away. You have to be able to stay at range to be effective, and slowly but surely Blizzard is making that harder, while making other classes have it easier to kill hunters.
I just take hope that Thunderstomp on my Scorpid won’t be completely useless, pet’s won’t be too cookie cutter, everyone doesn’t run with Blighthounds next patch (I’m already starting to see too many now,) and I can have some sort of trapdance, though I’ll probably end up going hybrid to do it…
I’ve run into a bit of a dilemma though this past week. I just started babysteps into endgame content these past couple of weeks, and I’m finding my self specing and glyphing into a more cookie cutter raid SV setup. I’m even using macros now for shots (finally) simply because my computer dies on even 10man Vault fights, and when dropping to like 4fps, manual shot weaves is nearly impossible to be efficient.
On the one hand, It’s really really nice to finally tackle endgame stuff with buddies IRL, something I’ve never been able to do in a MMO like ever. However, I can’t help but think this is the most boring thing ever. I’m getting great gear for arena and stuff, but I’m…just….standing there and spamming 1 or 2 buttons because of my framerates, and because of the nature of raids. I don’t count the stuff that requires you to !Jump in place because of a debuff and Sarth and such. I’m just more sure that I’m not excited about black arrow at all. If I’m gonna be forced into a rotation, more or less standing in place for tens of minutes, I might as well spec BM…
It’s weird, now running the same dalies for the last few weeks and being 80 finally, I had more fun in the run to 80 than you know…actually being 80… when I could solo and weave melee fighting into it and have it actually work and be efficient on mana, arrows and maintain decent damage – i.e. fight alongside your pet (or at least not the maximum distance away.) I can’t do anything like that in group content and it’s becoming disheartening.
WELL NO ONE EVER SAID BALANCING WOULD BE BALANCING D:
…
*pokey pokey pokey pokey @ Palla*
It’s pretty much what I do to Paladins now anyways- unless I am a spiteful evil creature and gank them in WG, and even then lower level paladins are hard to kill on Rosa. I mean holy hell it was 1v1 with Rosa vs a Holydin twink. I only won when the twink ran out of mana and then I made him stay out via viper sting.
Longest five minute fight on a hunter alt ever.
You know when the cowards don’t pull bubble/hearth.
TBH with most classes when I did pvp [haven't for like a week], I usually end up running the blip away, either from a warlock all effing Illidan after my butt- AND THEY HURT I GOT JUMPED AND ONESHOT …. after I somehow survived a rogue ._.
And paladins. Ok as much as I love owning things hard in pve with a retridin, oh god it’s like hell when I see a paladin come at me and all I can do is just run, runrunrunrunrun because the only paladins that chase me down are retridins and I’ve SEEN them 1-2-3 shot nearly all classes.
<.<
sometimes I think some classes are just a bit to op in pvp.
off topic but has anyone else had trouble installing ptr? i download and get 2% into update and an error comems up with some corrupt file error and closes down, tells me to reinstall the game but im not gonna reinstall for 9 hrs when im paying to play anyway so has anyone else had this problem or is it just me?
Was looking over at MMO Champion at a few things about the new T8 Set and saw a few things that caught my interest. Though, I can’t raid so it’s an epic failure for me
* Hunter T8 2P Bonus — Increases the damage done by your Serpent Sting by 10%.
* Hunter T8 4P Bonus — Your Steady Shot has a chance to grant you 600 attack power for 15 sec.
I’m sure for a few Glyphs these might be good but I don’t raid so I won’t get the feel of that 600 Attack Power bonus from Steady Shot if it procs. 15 seconds is a damn long time at times though :P
Hey guys can I trade you my innervate? Swear even you lot will get more use out of it now and Blizz STILL refuses to realise how badly this mana regen nerf is gonna hit Balance. Hell our set bonus is wtf (Boosts IS which barely anyone uses anymore whooooo!) Plus the whine about our rotation when we have 3 main damage spells and two extremely buggy talented spells, yeah make sense of that one.
This lot are absolute buggers for nerfing any class I enjoy or causing general buggery, I don’t want to go back to pre 1.8 days :( this is gonna steer me to messing around on my Priest and Hunters more but I just cna’t seem to win whatever I roll with.
I will also miss Rhino shunt, that was hilarous to watch and if it invovled gnomes all the better!
Hey I’m a Tauren what the hell do you expect :)
*Eventually dies from pokey pokey, due to being asleep* *Ryai wins*
They should just let all hunter abilities, talents, shots, proc on the run in PvP. Problem solved. That or let us run backwards at full speed.
They should just let all hunter abilities, talents, shots, proc on the run in PvP. Problem solved. That or let us run backwards at full speed.
Back when they first released wotlk, I ignored all the negative comments I read on the wow site about rhinos and stampede, and tamed one straightaway – and loved it. I didn’t care what anyone else said; if I left it on manual and triggered it just as a way of tying up enemies that were trying to switch to me, or interrupt casters, it worked like a charm – and the visual effect just made me… happy. Definitely worthy of the “exotic” label in my view.
Then they removed the AOE component from stampede, but replaced it with a bleed effect… but since all tenacity pets were getting TS (which, FWIW, I think may prove to be a case of “fixing” one OP pet by making the whole tree OP, but we’ll see) I still thought it was pretty good on the whole…
But now rhinos are losing even the single target knockback effect… and the bleed effect just enhances other bleed effects, i.e. maybe still okay for grouping (?) but not too useful for solo, and no longer very “exotic” in my view.
I win I win I win \o/
er I mean :d
*throws a Redemption at Palla*
So .. they removed the knockback effect… and gave it a bleed effect… whcih really only works to boost other bleed effects..
… but still have it labled as Stampede?
… that sounds more like ‘Gore’ing.
Some things which seem abundantly clear to me, but perhaps not to Blizzard:
* Blizzard doesn’t know how to figure out the DPS of a given class and spec.
* No effort at balancing will _ever_ work until they start making smaller and smaller changes. Balancing by adding, removing, or completely overhauling talents, pets, etc. will shift the balance so far, that entirely new behaviors will be seen, behaviors which have never been tested for balance. If I were them I would have a number of hidden tuning variables, so that, for example, they could reduce the damage of a particular shot by 0.1% or even 0.01%.
* When you completely change a talent or skill, you should give it a new descriptive name (aimed shot, anyone?).
* Don’t over promise. Or even over hint. Saying that hunters are going to get huge changes, and then not following through has made more bad feelings, than if they had said nothing. Would anyone be unhappy with the ammo changes if something better hadn’t been promised? No, I suspect not.
Thank You Kindly.
Let me explain the new stampede as it is on PTRs. Stampede deals damage and makes the target take 25% more damage from bleed effects. Going by Blizzards new ‘no unique debuff/buffs’ plan I am guessing it does not stack with other, similar effects. This means that arms warriors trauma and feral druids mangle will negate the effect of stampede. Protection warriors MIGHT get a little out of it, or rogues who actually use their bleed effects, but if you have a protection warrior then you probably don’t need a rhino, and I don’t know of many if any rogues who bleed things in instances. It does NOT apply a bleed DoT. And last time I checked it was bugged so it didn’t deal damage at all, just applied its effect.
…..
…..
Blizzard made Rhino full of fail.
:/
And I really wanted one for my Orc :/ mean a albino worm is cool, but I did want a rhino for later on/replace the worm cause the last slot is for my dream of King Krush on my orc [green n green lulz]
But now?
… ._. better off wirth the worm.
The armor debuff they do, does affect ranged damage too right?
Ranged damage is calculated as physical damage, so yes. I may take a bear now…..a croc is looking a lot better too. And worms have always been fun. Ironically, gorillas just went from a PvE pet to a PvP pet….and Rhinos went from being a PvP pet to nothing. Blaurgh.
Honestly, to balance PVP without breaking PVE (more), Blizzard would probably have to go a whole new route with spells and abilities. It’d be a lot of coding and work, so they probably wouldn’t do it. But I think they could make 2 “classes” of spells, one usable in ONLY pve, one usable in ONLY pvp. They could be indicated by a differently colored border. This way, they could keep the times and damages of certain spells seperate for pvp and pve, and, for example, if they decide they hate knock backs adn pull-to’s, they can designate those only pve.
*shrug* but that’s off topic i suppose.
Btw, how is the half-@ss normalization pet 5/5/5% ordeal looking on the PTR? Has it been changed, or even commented on? :(
Well tbh the top group mob tank pets would be; Bear, Crocolisk and Turtle. As one as an AoE swipe, one has a Retridin/Thorns esque buff for itself and one has a -50% ‘bubble’ for 12 seconds every 40sec-60sec [depending on if bm or not]
Single mob pets would most likely be Scorpid, Worm, Warp Stalker and Boars. Worms for the Debuff and Warp’s for the warp ability- yes they can all tank multiple mobs now but just saying, focused on what abilities they had prior, to what they will obtain in the next patch, they rank like this imo.
Crabs didn’t make the list, nor Gorillas as tbh they seem more pvp pets. And I tamed a crab on Sydria- and I found Pin could be broken by over active Typhooning or for some reason the mob just wailed on my crab to much.
And poor Rhinos … left in the cold now :/
my poor cute Rhino – this is just depressing – totally useless debuff (cuz hey if you have someone doing bleed in your group odds are you aren’t needing a tanking pet in the first place…)
He looks (all rhinos do kinda)like my R/L english bulldog – but now I feel guilty even keeping him because he’s become(ing) a pet I guess I’ll pull out for the hell of it when I’m solo-farming dailies and dont’ care about dps? How depressingly bleak and sad :(. *sigh* WTH Blizz?? WTH? How much more useless can you make this “exotic” pet!?
Honestly Noba, PvP balance at this point would be impossible, but NOT because of coding. It could be done, and it would take some time, it wouldn’t be as hard as all that. No, the problem would come from the players. Could you imagine what warriors would say if they suddenly got hit that hard in the face? Honestly, what every class would say? It’d be a nerf fest from Walla Walla, and just about every class would be invited. The other direction would be a buff fest, but even then some classes would whine until the cows came home about how X class go better buffs then their class.
The 5/5/5% is about what you’d expect. A bit of a loss, a bit of a gain, and all the pet’s looking the same. I’ll gander at it a bit more later, but pets are now sitting just outside of all being generic aside from family skills. The trees will help define them, but it sort of feels like things are getting more and more sparse to me.
First they change stampede’s knock back from affecting all targets down to just one target, and now they take it out completely.
What?
Where we having to much fun?
*rabble* *rabble* *rabble*
People need to remember that the stuff on the ptr is just testing. Most of the screw ups don’t make it to the actual patch, the key term being most.
And here’s my question, how come my snakes only attack one target? COME ON, they’re SNAKES. They should attack everything, alright.
‘People need to remember that the stuff on the ptr is just testing. Most of the screw ups don’t make it to the actual patch, the key term being most.’
Not always- and Blizzard HAS ignored people when they say something is broken, PTR wise or not. Or when something is messing up. A good example would be how some classes were so broken untill some fixes came, only in last year. Another example would be the ever so lovely Broken Boar Syndrome or When Pets Suddenly Let YOU Be the Tank.
I still remember that lovely phase.. and when I still had Trachela.. might go retame her on an alt.. anyways.
‘And here’s my question, how come my snakes only attack one target? COME ON, they’re SNAKES. They should attack everything, alright.’
Here’s the history of snake trap.
Snakes could attack non pvp players. If you defended yourself or if your pet or minion tried to defend you, you would go pvp. You would be killed. Why? Because it took a big man with big ba- to go to XR to kill lv 10-15s. I should know. When my Pally was there and I only survived two attacks by Bubbling up- and the second time just mass healing and running away as this level ?? nelf chased after me duel spamming me and /laughing at my plight that he caused.
So they fixed it, right? Wrong- snake trap became buggy and a bit broken. But it could still work- the snakes would follow you though, instead of staying put.
Then what, rogues whined that it broke stealth? You know ignore the fact that it’s a trap. Full of snakes.
So that was fixed. Which caused snakes to flat out ignore targets, pvp or otherwise. I’ve stopped using it at all on Ryai- hell I never used it past lv 74 once I realised how badly broken the trap has become overall. And hell- the ‘fixes’ for it, affect guardian mechanicals, Yasindra’s exploding sheep, mysteriously, won’t charge targets and explode! Whether I attack them first or not! And when they do go charging off, it’s not when I needed them!
This is a perfect example of a fix, going to a nerf, going to something utterly useless, because of pointless tweaking and people QQing.
I thank my lucky stars that the ‘pet going after stealth bug’ has yet to be fixed. [Aka you sic pet after a rogue just as/just before the rogue stealths or vanishes and you get to watch the pet chase all around after. Works on druids too- can't believe how many times- well few, that the bug actually SAVED me :/ ... which .. is like 5.]
Chrizesu/Moltenrain, unfortunately that isn’t the case. In fact most of the time if a problem is present on the PTR, it’ll make its way to live before sometimes maybe being hotfixed. I will admit that they have a better chance of being fixed in major patches like this…..but not usually for hunters.
i remember the snake trap glitch.i actually stopped useing it because of that.i dont care for griefers.
i think theyre makeing aotv require a ranged weapon,because on live it says the mana regen is based on ranged weapon speed…
Mania do you have any information about boars and their special ability?
“Gore” is pointless atm it’s a CD skill what makes less damage then a normal bite..
Errors on PTR not going live, hmm…
As an ever cynical Balance druid watching them wreak my spec constantly and clearly having no idea how the hell to stop us dying so frekaing easily I’m inclined to disagree :)
Lerk-
how does gore not do extensive dmg… use charge and gore for nearly 300 dmg (not including extra dmg from ur ap etc) now if u mean in regular combat where u cant call him back and have him charge again, then yes it isnt useful…
One thing that did happen for me is my spirit beast is now in permanent prowl. tried all the age old tricks – unset prowl/grown, dismiss/recall. no joy. stable, grab another pet, get beast, no joy. unset and relog. no joy. prowl isn’t even active, but the beast is in prowl. What I haven’t done, as I got tired of it, is get into combat with him and knock him out of prowl that way.
sigh.
Gimlion; so you’re ok with an ability a pet has, needing charge to be any effective? Oh yeah sure 300 dmg is fine, but what about the time lost calling the pet back to you to waste the focus to charge n gore again? TBH imo it’s not worth it. Oh sure a slight opening boost of extra damage.. then that’s it. Boar has been made more pvp if you want to add in charge+gore.
@ Shibumi; that seems like a bug that should be reported on the ptr/forums.
But if this is a new thing they’ve implimented.. someone should check cats and etc- because if this is their fix for the prowl bug :/
well, i just wouldnt use gore after the initial attack… but then again i dont use boars… my ten. tree pets are Bear Turtle and Warpers
well those are what i’d use… cept gorilla, but that will be gone come 3.1
Saaaaaaaaaaaaad Faaaaaaaaaace :[. Why is it that every time I fine something new and fun, like the rhinos pushback move (Which was super awesome, saved me a few times with me roflmoa’ing) they take it away from me and say, ‘RAWR I ESS HIT U WITH NERF HAMMER!!!’ I want to look in the bright side of things a lot, but seeing so many nerfs in most trees in the Hunter spec, survival is my spec through prebc and tbc, and still noaw, but they should change them to you know, something where every class won’t cry about too much. I won’t give you an example because I’ll get hit back with a super hammer of death, and because I think I would be doing worse than blizzard if I was the worker/production person! ^^. Blizzard please please fix the problems, and for goodness sakes BRING BACK THE OLD WING CLIP!!! ^^
By the way, while Trauma might be lovely for your local lonely Arms warrior, all your raid/instance DPS warriors should be specced Fury – and Fury relies on Deep Wounds for a lot of damage, which is a bleed effect.
So if nothing else, you’ll be making your local Titan’s Grip addict happy.
Speaking as someone who’s been rolling with the hunter class since open beta for the original game, we’re much better off than we have been, even if the developers are going with the “throw everything at the wall and code what sticks” method of class development. We have more pet families. We have unique pet abilities. We have increased utility for Surv (which was a complete and utter joke when original WoW was released, I’m sure you all remember this). We can, with skill, hit the top of the DPS meters in raids and we’re a touch less squishy than those flavour-of-the-month casters.
I’m not saying I like this patch, but it’s not like we’re Warriors or non-Shadow Priests – we’re better off than some classes.
That’s the problem- Surv is basically getting buffed. MM is getting some fixes.
BM?
‘Improved wing-clip is gone!’
‘All of Hunter comunity: isn’t that a Surv talent?’
‘AotV requires ranged weapons!’
‘Everyone: Lolwut?’
Just because we’re better than we were in the past does not excuse the mistakes they’re making now. I mean look at Druids- my friend tells me that once it was either resto or you were insulted up and down. Look at hunters, it was MM or nothing. And now look- people are insulting you if you’re not specced right, wanting certain speccs, complaining if you completed a raid or not- which is ironic as you can’t go into a raid because gasp you’ve never been in a run because you never were in it! ..
And as I said a healer, snapped at me to specc surv, telling me it’s best dps! it has dps! DURING A BOSS FIGHT WHEN I HAVE TO CONCENTRATE ON MENDPETSHOTSPAM and then because I adamantly go NO I AM BM STFU PLZ FFS- he/she LETS ME DIE.
This is NOT right- I don’t mind if you want to specc sv or like it, but breaking the hunter class is not right!
What use is unique pets if you can’t use them! Half the new breeds- if not all are Exotic! What good is that if you can’t use them! What good is that if they’re inferior! All the pets I now see are wolves and cats, wolves and cats, cats cats, wolves and cats! I barely ever see a Rhino- only twice in Dal. I barely see Devilsaurs anymore, I’m starting to NOT see Spirit Beasts, and they were becoming more common than Devilsaurs whenever I was in Dal- I’ve not seen any more Corehounds, not Kurken or acid green, and only ever seen one other MChound horde wise, and same for alliance.
What use is diversity when it’s BROKEN and FIDDLED WITH PROBLEMS? Nothing.
Because how can you say we have unique pet tricks- when no unique pets are being used? When as I said it’s cat wolves- and the occasional raptor. For exotics, it’s devilsaurs or spirit beasts. No offense all, I have them myself. But even those are becoming rare.
And to be honest, I kinda am against bringing a tenacity pet into an instance- not all hunters use them correctly. And what about TS being introduced for pets? It produces threat- what if those people who can’t use them correctly, blacklist hunters more?
No. No I am not pleased that SV has gotten survivability and utility while MM has been balanced and BM is once more black listed.
Blizzard BROKE the rule with UNBROKEN THINGS.
IF it is NOT broke, you don’t fix it!
And no- no we really aren’t. Blizzard’s way of fixing this was introducing Dual Spec. Why fix BM or other broken trees, when you can just respecc!
/rant
Ryai – I think you’re right. But in that situation I think the healer should just be healing, it’s totally mean to just let you die jsut because he/she doesn’t like BM.
And about Tenacity pets: I’ve tried my hydra sometimes in instances. He’s hard to control sometimes tbh, but he offtanks pretty good. The thing is, I just can’t abandon him, but I rarely solo, so… :/
Sadly, only a nerf to the beleaguered hunter class. Looks like I’ll be sticking to my warrior for a little longer…
@Ryai – a healer didn’t heal you just because of your spec??? WTH?? That’s one of the pettiest things I’ve ever heard someone doing. I’ve known that some healers can be such prima Dons/donas but that’s just stupid… I’ve kicked some of them off my guild just because they think they know better and expect preferential treatment due to high demand. I especially hate the ones who think they know another player’s class and playstyle when they don’t have one of their own in their account – like my neighbor who I know didn’t have a warrior in his account but tried to give a warrior in our guild some playtips as if he had one. I could say you added to his/her testiness by saying STFU… but if he/she has been bugging you to spec SV since instance/raid start and not quitting, then they are the ones that are harassing you… and you had the right to be pissed off. I wouldn’t be surprised if you guys almost wiped in that boss fight due to a healer being picky.
- sorry for being off topic, but I’ve come across twits like that (and worse) in the game.
Ryai:
Wow, no heals for you because of your spec? that’s harsh…
Anyways you are very much correct. I actually think that Blizz hates hunters. I’ve yet to see anyone work with hunters(In a positive way) then any other class. On my twink who was 36 a while ago I could take on any class one on one no questions asked. Now he’s 38 and he can barely keep up in damage or kills, but he’s great for deaths :P Why is it that Blizz doesn’t choose to be kind to hunters? Nobody really knows. As I’ve stated before (although it was on pets last time) Blizz like to make the strong stronger and the weak weaker. They might just get a sick kick out of the hunters arguing about it. IDK! and if you don’t like the way they made hunters, they could just tell you
“Well why don’t you just reroll a new character if you have so many complaints about it?”
Well, I’ve had my hunter since the game first came out, and I’m not giving up on him. He’s 80, so why would I give up on him anyways? But Blizz isn’t that logical or fair sometimes, and if someone complains about rouges or pallies or whatever being too powerful, they will most likely overlook it. But one person complains about a hunter being too powerful and they jump right on it. I’m not sure but have hunter’s had the most nerfs in the last expansion then any other class? just wondering. oh well…
Another thing about Blizz, too. Now I was looking at the older pets that have been “Shunned” by Blizzard, when I came across the ravager. I noticed that it’s skill was similar to the bats, so i checked out Sonic Blast. Now, Ravagers do more damage, however bats have a longer range, so I thought it was *kinda* even, considering neither bats nor ravagers have charge. but then looking at it again, I noticed something unpleasent. SONIC BLAST HAS A LONGER COOLDOWN! now why would a move that does less damage have a longer cooldown. I could understand how since Silthids are exotic that their web can be poison unlike a spiders, however neither of these are exotic. How is that fair? uuuggghhh… Blizz has a poor attitude at times…
Ryai-
You said that BM hunters are like crap… no survivability, not worth being at all except for the pure awesomeness of a big red beast fighting by ur side… i have to disagree, ALL the hunters in the guild im in are SV specced… and ALL the hunters in the guild im in agree that BM is the best route to go for Farming, most of the time questing, and pure survivability… so no, i dont think BM is totally useless, just not good in a grp/raid enviroment that needs a dps class to have high dps…
Gimlion-
That hardly makes up for the treatment that hunters, particularly BM hunters, have had as of late. ANY CLASS with ANY SPEC is good for farming. Farming takes almost no skill/thought. Kill/loot/kill/loot/kill/loot/kill/loot/oom/recover/kill/loot……… The fact is, the game is built around raiding, and to an arguably lesser extent pvp. Getting better gear and taking down difficult bosses is the main draw for a MMORPG, and if BM hunters are unable to pull their weight as far as dps is concerned, then they won’t get invited to raids, they will be kicked from groups/guilds, and the game will come to a screeching halt for those players. I know it has for me. Been leveling a Gnome lock on another server as of late.
No one should ever get not-healed because of their spec when it comes to “pure DPS classes”. If you’re a fury warrior trying to tank though, guess what, unless you change specs, I’m not even stepping into the instance *to* heal you. But honestly, any pure DPS class that dps’ (assuming you’re not afk the entire time) should get heals regardless.
Perhaps I’ve just been lucky in all this. I’ve come across a few people who were asshats about me being BM and you know what? They were all SV Hunters. Best part was, they were schmucks I easily outdps’d. Why? Cause I’m not just some Hunter who changes to a spec without researching it. But I’ve been top dps in my heroics and coming in about 5th in Raids (considering I’m terribly undergeared compared to them, that’s good).
BM can still pull some of it’s weight around, and tbh, it can beat the hell out of an SV Hunter who doesn’t take advantage of every proc or that generally doesn’t know what they’re doing.
And, you’d be surprised how often that comes up (at least on my realm).
So what’s my point? BM is not just a “farming” spec, but if you plan to raid, you need to bring nothing but your A-Game. Know your spec; this goes for any spec, any class.
And Gelannerai, not all classes farm equally. Have you ever tried farming as a Resto Druid? Fun stuff there <_<;;;;
well yes rikaku, before i respecced SV (yes i did a LOT of research on gear needs, rotations etc.) i was doing 2.6k dps on Naxx 10 fights… in almost all blues… so i was putting a fair amount of dps… but TBH with you, if you know how to play SV ur gunna put up alot more dmg than BM, which really sucks because BM is the coolest spec ever… but yes… spec means nothing if u dont know anything about it… i knew the tops and bottoms of BM, so i could do well in it… I know the tops and bottoms of SV now too, so i do well in it as well
Grimlion you .. really.. didn’t read what I said. Did you.
‘No. No I am not pleased that SV has gotten survivability and utility while MM has been balanced and BM is once more black listed.’ <- me. And never did I say they were ‘crap’
You said; ‘ALL the hunters in the guild im in are SV specced… and ALL the hunters in the guild im in agree that BM is the best route to go for Farming, most of the time questing, and pure survivability… ‘
And survivabiltiy? HA. What survivability? My survivability is about FD and hoping they fall for it! Again What survivability. SV and MM have more pvp talents- well mm had, now it doesn’t. BM has two [Intimidate and TBW] but they don’t help. SV gets more pvp survivability AND dps talents.
I bet you all were BM when it was big and MM too when it was that or nothing. You aren’t grasping that oh sure the minmaxers are fine and the big dpsers are fine, the ones who don’t care about respeccing are fine, but I do!
And like hell I want to be a specc that’s good for farming for consolation! Even tho I said that is unfortunately what we are becoming atm that doesn’t mean I am going to give in anymore! Screw dual speccing or sv at all! Ryai is staying BM!
I’ll just play my paladin and warlock and druid untill Hunters are fixed!
RISE WITH ME DONT GIVE IN PETOPIA D:
Anyways.
Yeah I didn’t get healed :/ I mean I understand MT gets priority- but in past runs on other instances before that and after, the healers do usually go oh snap huntar! /heal/heal goes back to heal spamming the MT.
Yes, right now on live that’s the case. But BM will probably never be top spec again. Blue have already stated that they want the more complex classes to do more damage (or at least that’s their aim). And I don’t care how many BM lovers like myself can throw out BM is just as hard as SV; no it’s not. SV is way more complex (not that BM isn’t complex in it’s own right, but SV is the more complex spec) than BM due to it’s more proc-based abilities. So, if Blizzard’s aim is true, than SV will be pulling ahead of BM.
Do I like that? No, but such is the lot in life we’re dealing with.
But!
I haven’t been on the PTR lately due to RL things, but my friend (who is the best Hunter I know, hands down) is reporting only a 200DPS difference between SV and BM right now.
Quite frankly if that’s true, it’s a good thing. With a 200DPS difference one can choose based on play-style.
*****”More complex classes…” Should read “More complex SPECS”********
I haven’t had my chocolate drink yet. My apologies XD
If that was true my paladin would be rolling in dps as Retri feels complex to me 8D
But if the dps is THAT SMALL A MARGINE. Oh well fine screw SV [no offense], I ain’t respeccing then at all. If people really want +200 dps so badly, fine, screw them, they’re just like the people that denied me a hc HoL run because oh gasp, I didn’t have a MELEE AXE THAT LOKEN OR WHATEVER DROPS. I MIGHT NEED IT! … ignore the fact I already had decent ranged swords from wyrmrest .. /sigh
whoot \o/ I am a little bit happier now.
And also tbh I don’t care if BM is never top specc again- I just want it to be viable and you to not get black listed. Cause you know good ol Blizzard!
Bring the class not the specc! 8D
Blizzard: oops we lied :D
Edit: YES RANGED SWORDS. I shove them into my gun and shoot them!
I mean.
Swords that help my Rap.
Why is nobody making an official thread on the forums and then bringing all this up in a calm manner? You all have great ideas but if Blizz never hears about them they’ll never get noticed. People talk about getting ignored by GC and the moderators on the forums. Well, when you don’t try to get their attention with details and some good reasons as to why such and such should be changed there will be nothing done about it. They see my thread, my first one, and I get two blue posts from Ghostcrawler of all people when I bring up how shitty Ravagers are nowadays. All the sudden the pet trees get changed when four pages of hunters and other classes contributing their opinions come forth. I admit, it’s not quite the change we were looking for but it’s something. It will sure allow my Silithid to survive for a bit longer and do the damage he was meant to do while alive…
Some good starters would be equalizing BM with SV. How could that be done? I made a massive post about it the other day on the PTR forum. Only a few people responded. Perhaps it got to a dev, perhaps it didn’t. All of you make it possible for these changes to occur. If you’re upset about your class, make a good, solid argument that backs up what you think should be changed. I could bring up a few things right now. Perhaps the damage for Exotic pets should be increased or maybe a couple more points should be gained for the pet from the Beast Mastery talent. Ghostcrawler is afraid of all hunters getting more talent points for their pets due to bloated trees. Well, how about making a start by giving more points to the spec that counts on their pet for the bulk of their damage. As a Beast Mastery hunter my Cat or Devilsaur could be doing 40% or so of my DPS. I think that’s a valid argument there. They say they’re satisfied with the damage the other two specs are doing. So, perhaps Survival and Marksman hunters don’t need more talent points for their pets? A lot more could be brought up, even for hunters in general and not just Beast Mastery although I certainly believe it could use the most work out of the three.
okay thx Elanesse!
O.o
I’m Nano…
/confused
Um yeah- and the changes to pet trees aren’t that great, you’re now forced to talent for something that can easily be glyphed for by Warlocks and Death Knights. There isn’t enough points to be used in the Tenacity tree- and to get the stamina buff we have to forgo Last Stand, which is VITAL to ANY tank imo when you are facing bosses or mobs that can enrage [such as the five man son of gruuls in blades edge, or whatever the hell those gronns are]
But the worst thing is- you’d have to also forgo ‘Silverback’ because not only are the talents both in the same place and both 2/2 instead of 1/1, the +stam/strength contributing talent is tied to the most worthless one in the game.
And we were already told by GC that pet trees won’t change and hunters won’t get one/two more points for pet talents because oh then we’d be able to get everything.
Even tho you know that;’s wrong- you’d still have to sacrifice something in tenacity. Same with cunning. And ferocity.
Then they nerfed a BM talent- then they nerfed pets by making them overall equal. This also probably means that exotics lost their +10% damage GC was so proudly caterwalling about, if I used tyhe proper word in the proper term here, and then they went and nerfed what was it, shark frenzy?
And then they didn’t like how heavy and hard pets were hitting on the ptr and they got nerf batted again, if I remember right.
And now I remember why I hate SV and MM- not true hate just .. even if there is only a 200~ dps difference between BM and SV .. that’s with pets taken into account. If our pets die, we have to waste mana and time to revive them, SV and MM hunters do not because the pet is not 30-50% of their dps output.
/sigh
And now I’ve come to realise why BM is so broken, we rely so heavily upon our pets, yet Blizzard does make them fragile- yes I understand that not always do pets die, and I’ve had some very nice healers that do heal my pets too, but when everything goes pearshaped and you’re oom- you face a hard choice in bm. Waste mana to revive pet or try and help take the boss down.
But when it goes pearshaped for mm or sv they don’t face the hard choices like that :/
We have pet talents we’re forced to use so we don’t have to buy anything, such as glyphs, and when we do buy glyphs it sometimes improves what we already have such as the new mend glyph which might free up some of my own talent points for me.
Ghostcrawler did not say we wouldn’t get the extra points, he said that they had to be cautious about how they did it because then all hunters would get what only BM is supposed to have. The pet trees are better than they were and worse than they were in some ways. Overall, it’s for the better. Now Cunning pets aren’t completely useless. I see great potential for my Silithid in PvP, as as well as my other pets in many other areas so I may have to in fact disagree with you on the whole talent tree thing for pets being lost in ruin. Even with the slight reduction in the +AP% from Wild Hunt the pets still hit fairly hard. Regardless, they’re more powerful in the PTR than they are now depending how you spec if I’m not mistaken with them being able to survive being better as well. What I have to sacrifice in Cunning is nothing for my build. I could use one point in Ferocity to make my pet have the perfect tree with the newest addition to all trees enabling me to skip Bloodthirsty and the talents that need it as a prerequisite. Glyph of mending will be more than enough, at least for me. A point in Tenacity would be nice as well but not all that crucial. Why complain about how our pets can’t tank when we weren’t meant to be a tanking class anyways? Again, not being able to get Silverback. I think a 40% increase in my heals to my pet from the new glyph fixes counters that.
*fixes/counters
Excuse the typo
OK,I have a question that is about pets. It doesn’t really pertaintot his thread though… but i am gonna sk it here anyway since this is the hot thread. OK, I am trying bulk up my stam and defense so i can try (stupidly) to tank some lower end heroics. I know, you are all laughing already, but I am still gonna try. So, please, only try to help and not hinder. lol So, here is my big question, along with my Stamina, should I stack defense rating or Resilence rating? Should I mix it up? I know crit cap for a hunter is 5.8%, and I know my pet cannot be crit capped…. so, what is the best way to make my tenacity benefit from my stacking of these abilies. Any constructive feedback would be appreciated. Thanks.
Palladiamores, you have send me useful tidbit of info on this before, and you seemto be a very well versed hunter when it comes to things out of the norm… so i am hoping for some feedback from ya.
‘Glyph of mending will be more than enough, at least for me. A point in Tenacity would be nice as well but not all that crucial.’
Glyph of Mending is a Major glyph. Isn’t it? :/ there was a Glyph. Mend Pet. Instead of fixing that/changing that, and keeping it a minor as really it’s not op in my opinion, they remove the AotM glyph and give us that. Logic =/= Blizzard atm.
‘Why complain about how our pets can’t tank when we weren’t meant to be a tanking class anyways?’
… Why roll SPriest when Priests are a healing class. O wait.
A more serious note- because NOT ALWAYS CAN YOU GET A TANK. NOT for group quests, NOT for lowbie instances. Do you know what tanked an UK and an AN run for my Warlock? A Hunter, kind enough to come when his friend in my group asked, who was lv 80 and who had a gorilla. And while it did get, hairy, at a few points, we smashed our way thru.
And that is MUCH better than being in the lfg chan for 4 hours looking for a tank!
So are you going to throw away a usefullness of hunters- who are nice and kind enough, to, when asked and not busy, come and help people in desperate need of tanks?
And what about my small guild- we’re a membership of four/five, because we are small and we don’t want to inadvertantly join a guild that is well to demanding [as we all have alt itus and are casuals]. With Ryai being a hunter, and level 80 and with a tank pet means when we have WG we can just go farm normal Nexus and UK and possibly AN for shards, since one of my friends is to nervous about joining groups at all.
‘Again, not being able to get Silverback. I think a 40% increase in my heals to my pet from the new glyph fixes counters that.’
Again. Major Glyph afaik. AND. for Tank pets- it’s pointless anyways. With silverback, spirit bond and the points in the stam, my pet gets like 40/50% increase to healing- which means if I’m running a group, the Glyph is redundant since I dps, pet tanks, one of my drood friends throws out heals and dps’s as the other one goes dps.
AND for raiding/instances- that means I have to waste a MAJOR slot and it seems I already screwed up cause silly me thought Rapid Fire and AotH/D glyph would be perfect! No! So I now gotta see what will be useful- and I am NOT getting rid of my TBW glyph.
So again, this does nothing :/
And I don’t think you grasped what I meant- I linked to what GC said in the forums. GC said basically we are NOT getting more points [BM or otherwise] because then hunters would have everything- when I doubt that’s true as even 2 extra points would not really make much of a difference, BM or not.
If They REALLY wanted to fix it they would remove most of the useless pre-requesits on pet talents. Or with some, like Avoidance, give to all pets passively.
And for tank pets- you have to talent in RoS FOR Wild Hunt which is redundant and useless! you waste a talent point that could be spent elsewhere just to get something to make a tank pet slightly, better!
I’m sorry but the pet trees are bloated- and badly built. They were before, but they were less bloated so with a bit of work, you could get what you needed for usefulness and survivability, for PVP and with a respecc for PVE.
But now? Ferocity pets are stretched thin- you have to sacrifice survivability for a extremely fragile weapon. And if you don’t want too, you have to give up dps. For tank pets- as I said the trees bloat and the 2/2 skills of both, hurt more than help. And as for cunning pets, it’s like SV atm, perfectly balanced for talents- sure as sv you can;t get all that you want, and with BM you can, but it just depends on how you use them as the talents are less chained- and what is chained is what you’d go for anyways… for the most part.
As said the only way to really fix this would be to unchain the talents. But they won’t do that :/
Edit: Also, I can add again. I had skipped most dungeon quests because of my fear of well, running groups. But Aria managed to snag a group to finish off the quests so I asked if I could come and sure- so we had gotten to prince Keleseth and well bad DK tank suddenly goes SORRY GUILD WANTS ME BYE :D
/tank gone.
So we kinda stand here all … and I look at my Gorilla who’s still lv 75 [and now abandond but anyways] then I look at Keseleth, and then I remember I have my Erebus in the stables. Cause we had tried and wiped because of bad dk tank and poor gorilla got slaughtered.
So I go and I get Erebus and come back, and we own the belf [as it's funny when he tries to freeze you, and pet, and he can't when you're under TBW] and then we proceed to slowly. Cautiously. Carefully go thru the rest of UK untill an SPriest came and well, it sure is funny seeing a priest use a Vrykrul as a tank.
So while yes tanking lowbie instances is not a GLORIOUS thing- pets can tank/OT when it’s needed, sacrificing themselves for the better good of the group, it’s what I did in a Durnhold run with a Devilsaur- and I was ready to let her die so the DKs could survive because of a dumb warlock who ninja started the event, but the healer saw what Cherry was doing- and that Cherry had pulled one off him at my command.
So healer starts spam healing my devilsaur as I dps down one mob and the two DKs deal with the two Cherry is able to keep a hold of- without growl mind you. If she had been a tanking pet it might have gone even smoother than it did after we survived everything going pearshaped on us.
As while I said I am wary about hunters who bring tank pets to instances, those that know how to use them, will be able to use them well. But those that can’t .. shouldn’t. Please. Not untill you know what to do. No offense is meant.
Dweezil:
Skip resilence altogether. Outside of PvP I honestly don’t that being useful. There’s not really much I think one can go for, but I’d say go stamina. Your pets benefit from your stamina so go from there. Obviously pick up Imprv Mend Pet (and come patch the Glyph of Mend Pet) and Spirit Bond. Also if you need more, I’d reccommend Feral Druid gear since technically it’s your pet that’ll be tanking (right? I may be misunderstanding) and not you.
Also on another note, unless you’re on the US forums you know you’ll get point blank ignored no matter what help/feedback you post. Supposedly it trickles through but it never does.
“In a group with a warr, kitty, and rogue, the rhino will be their savior, and every boss’s nightmare. ..Or at least the ones that bleed.”
The Rhino’s bleed booster will most likely not stack with the feral druids’ Mangle, a debuff which gives 30% more bleed damage and can be up 100% of the time. So the only time a Rhino would be good is when there’s no feral druids around. And even then, I don’t think the amount of bleed damage outweighs the damage lost for having a Rhino instead of a ferocity pet.
Ryai,
Pets tanking high level instances is a glorious thing. I’ve tanked several lvl 80 heroics with my gorilla, Umtokk, without much of a problem. I suggest you check out http://bigredrhino.wordpress.com for more info on hunter tanking ;)
Rikaku,
yes, my pet will be doing the tanking. And Stamina is my main priority, but I would also like to get my 5.8 crit resist. So, that is gonna take some stacking in either defense or resiliance. Let’s face it, pets will always be critable, and if my little slime does get crit to death, my hunter would then take over the tanking. lol Yeah, it’s going to be an adventure, and I will have to practice it. but, if other hunters can tank bosses level 80 heroic raids, I am sure I can learn to do it too with some practice. lol I am also considering stacking up armor rating, since pets also get armor from the hunter. so many options, just wanna try to get the optimal stats for the optimal affect.
Dweezil:
Resilence doesn’t apply to PvE enviroment (if I’m not mistaken). It’s a pure PvP spec, also it does not transfer to your pet, so stacking that is doubly useless. Definitely use armor rating in any way possible. I don’t believe pets receive any defense rating (other than armor) from the hunter, so it may be your best bet to go with that.
Ariamodasu:
Even if you post on the US forums, 90% of the time it will go unanswered.
Right now the fact remains that despite the complaints of the hunter community, Hunters are where Blizzard wants them. This is the only reasonable conclusion I can come to after Hunter has gone about 2 PTR builds without really being “touched”, even more so BM Hunters.
Personally, I think this is gonna turn into 3.0.8 again. i.e. we tell blizzard over and over again that it’s a bad idea/broken, they don’t listen, and then 2 weeks later “we screwed up guys!”
Thats not actually correct Rikaku. Resilience is a pve stat as well so affects the hunter however you are correct that both Resilience and Def will not transfer to the pet.
(As a side note.. NanoTrev, I am in the UK so cant post to the US forums where GC hangs out so my good ideas will never be seen unless someone from here takes my ideas and puts them onto the US forums for me.)
So a suggestion is:
(A) Allow 50-100% of the hunters Defense (and also resilience though I know this has been rejected by blizz before) to transfer to the pet. This will improve their tanking ability whilst at the same time nerf our dps by stacking def gear
OR
(B) Make Aspect of the Beast a pet tank buff (increase pet stam, armour and AP by 10%, increase pet dodge by X% OR it could increase stam/armour/dodge if Tenacity and AP if Ferocity/Cunning) – Glyph of Aspect of the Beast (increases the bonuses) – Aspect Mastery (add Aspect of the Beast = Pet has 2% less chance to be crit by melee or ranged attacks)
OK going back to Dweezil it is possible for the hunter to tank either using Dual Wield (using tanking weapons) or a 2 Hander (using a Druid staff). You will need to stack a combination of Def/Resilience to reach the crit cap avoidance then any extra is good on dodge. There is the new Glyph of Raptor Strike which will mitigate damage too. Overall a hunter can be an avoidance tank a bit like a DK (where most of our potential tanking abilities were stolen and given to them… not that Im bitter about it!). The drawback is a hunter hasnt been given the threat abilities to actually stay on top to tank. So its a catch22 situation.
So if you want your pet to tank which is more viable but risky without crit avoidance cap you should be stacking stamina gear whilst not gimping your AP too badly. So what you need is pvp gear as the basis, druid staves have best Stam and some armour, Stam gems galore and odd socketed accessories like rings, necks (possibly tank or pvp versions).
Drina and Rikaku,
Luckily, I am a JC, so i can make the trinkets that give a good bit of Stam and still be socketed. So, that is 61 and 62 stamn form the two trinkets and 4 sockets. Not to mention i can use my dragon’s eye cuts to stack up some of the stas I need to work on. I also have most of the pvp gear already. but lately, I have been looking at the Icy Scale armor. It has a TON of stamina, and a LOT of sockets. the drawback with it is, It only offers Stam and frost resist. So, that is an avenue i am looking at. If i go that way, i have the option of more stam or defense rating/ armor. Liek i said though, no AP or Agility to speak of. Which brings me to another questions. Do i wanna try forany kind of Agility? It helps with my AP, dodge defense… and could be somethig I should look inot as well. what are your thoughts on that?
They were going to make resilience PvP only, but scrapped that idea. It is just less useful for PvE then it used to be.
You know, one way to help with the lack of tanks is to just flat out make hunter pets potential tanks. Voidwalkers too. The problem is that recently a void walker tanked down Saphiron, and Blizzard IMMEDIATELY NERFED THEM.
The problem is, and I actually understand this, that hunter pets get stats from buffs applied to them, AND a portion of the buff applied to the hunter, same with warlocks. In a solo or non-coordinated PvP enviroment that doesn’t matter to much. But in PvE, it means pets go insane, and causes pets to scale wildly. The answer is simple, give the pets 100% of buffs given to the hunter, but don’t allow pets to be buffed. Course that brings up all sorts of targetting not funness, like potentially not being able to target pets for nessecary things like healing.
Dweezil, focus mainly on stamina, but don’t neglect your AP. The more AP you have, the more threat your pets will generate. I’ll do a little more research and see what else I can dig up.
I know that this might seem off topic, but can anyone tell me if these are three good pets for the 30-39 BGs?
SeafoodSam (Crab)
SHAZZAM (Carrion Bird)
TheVet (Hyena)
I was just wondering. also would a scorpid maybe be good to or no?
Some promising comments on MMOChampion today:
Differences between pets DPS
Totally agree. We don’t want 51-BM hunters to have fewer pet choices. We want the 51 BM talent to be a net dps increase as well as giving the player some prestige pets, that often have some nice little buffs or abilities.
Perhaps we will see a change. =D
http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=45666.0
I just checked the snake trap thing. I’m a level 72 hunter *cry* and my snake trap only coughed up 8 snakes…
And, Did Cats get a nerf? Blizz epicly f*cked up rhinos. Since I’m pissed enough, Ai dun want teh kittehs to be f*cked up as well as teh rhinos and teh DPS of Hunters.
Truefax: Bizz be hatin’ like hell on hunters. So there goes my chances at my Zulian War Tiger…
Icanhascheezburger:
I dunno where you read Cats got nerfed. Other than the loss of 5% damage to all ferocity pets, I don’t see any cat specific nerf.
On another note:
New PTR build, no real changes. Though now Hunter’s Mark is 5 mins, so yay? Well, could be worse so I guess it is a yay.
I could see the entrapment nerf being of concern to BM hunters looking for another snare option since improved wing clip being being removed…
The hunters mark thing sounds like a change for raids. Perhaps the new harder ones with the 500 billion hp bosses? I’m ignorant as to why we would ever need a 5 minute mark, and if they really intend for single fights to last that long or longer, standing still just firing crap at something, it sounds like EQ or FF11 all over again.
Ignorant of course, again, I just started getting into endgame content…
I could continue but it’s been overdone already…
Ryai:
I’m doing just fine.
Edit.
Yes, there are things to improve, but the new patch looks fairly promising.
Saranette: Don’t remind me of FFXI. I hated those almost 2 hour long boss fights. Not to mention the one 24hr boss fight. I love life too much to devote hours to one boss that doesn’t figure in wipes. XD
Just got home from work, and nothig really new to say… but I do wanna thank everybody for the imput they have given me. i do appreciate it. Keep it coming.
‘Course that brings up all sorts of targetting not funness, like potentially not being able to target pets for nessecary things like healing.’
Or maybe pets only recive 50% of a buff- so the pet still double dips but not as insanely as I would love pets to still be able to be healed Palla :c
Cause mean not every time can you get a VoA group with like 7 blood DKs and oh my god the healing buff aura thing of theres, I got hit by that rock shard aoe even tho I strifed to get away and a shaman was going to heal me but I had already recovered from the damage I had, thanks to the aura and life bloom.
@ Rikaku: Wasn’t there a boss for one of the newer FF games that was/is like invincable? I heard that some people tried for 24+ hours before they finally had to give in as they were literally getting sick.
Also;
‘I could see the entrapment nerf being of concern to BM hunters looking for another snare option since improved wing clip being being removed…’
Ignore the fact it was an SV talent :D
and you know not BM
… what the hell does blizzard smoke sometimes? O_o
And er yay five minute hunter mark … not like it really is that troublesome to cast … talented or not. I heard Feral/Fairy fire or whatever the armor reduction talent of droods got changed like that too or something so not really surprised.
Tho tbh this feels more like a hotfix change than something to be tinkering with now :/
Edit: btw Palla;
‘The problem is that recently a void walker tanked down Saphiron, and Blizzard IMMEDIATELY NERFED THEM’
How the hell did they manage that? Whenever I use my VW I almost always pull aggro- affliction or demo D:
If I remember right, IF, then because of various buffs and gear the voidy had 65,000 hit points or so, and everyone just sort of ran with it.
I don’t understand why hunter/lock pet tanking should be frowned upon. I mean, I would assume it takes a very odd or spicific build and gear that would be unconventional at best. It’s not like they would put tanking classes out of the job, it’s too exotic to even be flavor of the month.
-ohhh but once the warrior kiddies get word of it and start in with the “yeah would you like my too? huntard L2P. please. to the ground!”
html broke the tags. oops!
“yeah would you like my IMPORTANT WARRIOR ABILITY AND PLATE MAIL too?”
Probably would be the same warrior that tried to tank our ring of blood group while being fury/arms specced and BLAMING THE HEALER FOR IT LOSING AGGRO.
At the time Alice was able to out aggro the bosses, and ofc get squashed and all she was doing was scree scree scree…
/facepalm
Luckily when that idiot left a VERY NICE DROOD CAME TO HELP US :D
luvbaredrood.
And Palla, if you’re remembering right .. well .. holy .. holy crap.
@Dweezil
The Ice gear is great for stam but is a dps nerf. I have a full set stacked with Stam gems.
So far on the ptr without much pvp gear or tanking items I can get my semi buffed pet to around 26k health and me to about 29k. With more gear I have worked out it can be up to around 33k+ and thats not using BiS.
Pets will NEVER be decent tanks, even with the health/mitigation, for the following reasons
(a) Long Taunt cd
(b) Poor target control
(c) Lack of controlled/positioning movement
Unless of course you are using Eyes of the Beast to control it.
It would be fine for static fights but ones where the tank repositions or moves would be impossible if the hunter was still active.
However Pets would make great Off Tanks for raiding and possibly Main Tanks for instances.
One other suggestion to make them tank is to change Eyes of the Beast so the hunter phases out and takes control of the pet without a timer. However if the pet dies then so does the hunter.
Or as I have mentioned in other threads they create a Pet Merge talent where we become a Werebear/Weretiger to tank or melee dps. Solves pet death problems on pet unfriendly bosses and gives us an alternate role.
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