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	<title>Comments on: Dual Talent Spec Details</title>
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	<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2009/02/12/dual-talent-spec-details/</link>
	<description>Flotsam from too many sites</description>
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		<title>By: Grennyn</title>
		<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2009/02/12/dual-talent-spec-details/comment-page-2/#comment-38292</link>
		<dc:creator>Grennyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 18:43:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maniasarcania.com/?p=2458#comment-38292</guid>
		<description>I think the problem with hunters is that they don&#039;t perform very well with soley the talents from any one tree. A hunter needs some talents of each tree in order to be just a regular average hunter. That&#039;s BM, MM, and SV improvements.  Even with a good build if you do only 51 pts. in one tree and have 20 pts. left to toss around here and there, you&#039;re going to miss out on some abilities that are somewhat needed to be a good regular plain jane hunter IMO.

What the tweak is, I&#039;m not sure. Some of the abilities need to be moved down lower in the trees, some things like Hunters sucking at Melee, could giving them more armor make a difference in this? And yeah, sure it would, but for PvE their armor is fine, cause the pet growls the hunter feigns and the mobs are back on the pet, but for PvP they suck. Silencing Shot/Tranquilizing shot are good if they are taken quick enough, but the warlock sneaking up behind me fears me, DotS me and I&#039;m dead before I even get two shots off. arggh! Beastial Wrath/Beast Within still have to cast before trauma occurs.  PvP as a hunter is really frustrating. I think improving the traps and making a talent for aimed traps would be amazing for hunters, and why can&#039;t MM Hunters learn cower or something? disengage launching me over cliffs &gt;.&lt; feign death with it&#039;s lengthy cool down sheesh. my pet who I almost ALWAYS want to have threat has cower on automatic *rolleyes* so I have to turn it off, but I can&#039;t have cower? O.O and who decided to take away scatter shot and give it to SV? can&#039;t that be a trained learned ability for hunters in general? sheesh. And if I critical on some shot, and it grants me 15% attack power for 10 seconds, then why not let my pet share it? or if my devilsaur monsterous bites, and it stacks 3 times can&#039;t it also share that with me and automatically stack my ranged damage up to 3 times? Hunters are a great PvE soloing class I think, but that&#039;s about it. In raids/dungeons they seem to generate too much threat with their shots, when meanwhile the pet is often taking threat off the main tank (which nobody likes) or it&#039;s side-lined on passive (ineffectual), but of course it&#039;s not good enough to tank by itself normally, and oh yeah they do pretty poor at pvp. *sigh* Things like that could be better balanced and resolved by the pet tree / families I think. With a BM spec i feel like I can sick my pet on most things 1,2,3 mobs and sit back and just autoshot and not do a thing *yawn* with MM *aspect of the hawk* I pull too much threat from my pet and disengage/feign/trap *aspect of the monkey* wingclip/raptor/mongoose constantly (survival skills i&#039;m not spec&#039;ed for). And survival I&#039;ve not tried for soloing but I don&#039;t think soloing is really what survival is made for. So I dunno. I think some tweaks and balancing could definitely happen for the Hunter class. :-/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the problem with hunters is that they don&#8217;t perform very well with soley the talents from any one tree. A hunter needs some talents of each tree in order to be just a regular average hunter. That&#8217;s BM, MM, and SV improvements.  Even with a good build if you do only 51 pts. in one tree and have 20 pts. left to toss around here and there, you&#8217;re going to miss out on some abilities that are somewhat needed to be a good regular plain jane hunter IMO.</p>
<p>What the tweak is, I&#8217;m not sure. Some of the abilities need to be moved down lower in the trees, some things like Hunters sucking at Melee, could giving them more armor make a difference in this? And yeah, sure it would, but for PvE their armor is fine, cause the pet growls the hunter feigns and the mobs are back on the pet, but for PvP they suck. Silencing Shot/Tranquilizing shot are good if they are taken quick enough, but the warlock sneaking up behind me fears me, DotS me and I&#8217;m dead before I even get two shots off. arggh! Beastial Wrath/Beast Within still have to cast before trauma occurs.  PvP as a hunter is really frustrating. I think improving the traps and making a talent for aimed traps would be amazing for hunters, and why can&#8217;t MM Hunters learn cower or something? disengage launching me over cliffs &gt;.&lt; feign death with it&#8217;s lengthy cool down sheesh. my pet who I almost ALWAYS want to have threat has cower on automatic *rolleyes* so I have to turn it off, but I can&#8217;t have cower? O.O and who decided to take away scatter shot and give it to SV? can&#8217;t that be a trained learned ability for hunters in general? sheesh. And if I critical on some shot, and it grants me 15% attack power for 10 seconds, then why not let my pet share it? or if my devilsaur monsterous bites, and it stacks 3 times can&#8217;t it also share that with me and automatically stack my ranged damage up to 3 times? Hunters are a great PvE soloing class I think, but that&#8217;s about it. In raids/dungeons they seem to generate too much threat with their shots, when meanwhile the pet is often taking threat off the main tank (which nobody likes) or it&#8217;s side-lined on passive (ineffectual), but of course it&#8217;s not good enough to tank by itself normally, and oh yeah they do pretty poor at pvp. *sigh* Things like that could be better balanced and resolved by the pet tree / families I think. With a BM spec i feel like I can sick my pet on most things 1,2,3 mobs and sit back and just autoshot and not do a thing *yawn* with MM *aspect of the hawk* I pull too much threat from my pet and disengage/feign/trap *aspect of the monkey* wingclip/raptor/mongoose constantly (survival skills i&#8217;m not spec&#8217;ed for). And survival I&#8217;ve not tried for soloing but I don&#8217;t think soloing is really what survival is made for. So I dunno. I think some tweaks and balancing could definitely happen for the Hunter class. :-/</p>
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		<title>By: Korzak</title>
		<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2009/02/12/dual-talent-spec-details/comment-page-2/#comment-38233</link>
		<dc:creator>Korzak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 16:43:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maniasarcania.com/?p=2458#comment-38233</guid>
		<description>One other idea:

Let our movement speed bonuses stack.  There&#039;s like four of them or something, and none stack.  if they stacked, we could be fast enough to get the heck out of range.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One other idea:</p>
<p>Let our movement speed bonuses stack.  There&#8217;s like four of them or something, and none stack.  if they stacked, we could be fast enough to get the heck out of range.</p>
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		<title>By: Korzak</title>
		<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2009/02/12/dual-talent-spec-details/comment-page-2/#comment-38232</link>
		<dc:creator>Korzak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 16:34:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maniasarcania.com/?p=2458#comment-38232</guid>
		<description>Other changes:

Remove the range limit on Kill Shot.  Why give us back that horrible deadzone on one ability?

Fix Evasion so that it removes you the max distance regardless of terrain!  Nothing is worse than hitting Evade with your back to a slight slop and only hopping back three feet.  It&#039;s useless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Other changes:</p>
<p>Remove the range limit on Kill Shot.  Why give us back that horrible deadzone on one ability?</p>
<p>Fix Evasion so that it removes you the max distance regardless of terrain!  Nothing is worse than hitting Evade with your back to a slight slop and only hopping back three feet.  It&#8217;s useless.</p>
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		<title>By: Korzak</title>
		<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2009/02/12/dual-talent-spec-details/comment-page-2/#comment-38231</link>
		<dc:creator>Korzak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 15:54:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maniasarcania.com/?p=2458#comment-38231</guid>
		<description>Rather than see us get melee abilities, I would rather they just made it so hunters can do EVERYTHING on the run.  Everything.  If we have to keep range to use those abilities, then let us keep moving constantly.  Shorten the cooldown on Evasion.  Give us a Reverse Death Grasp, where we can bounce our target away from us (but not off an edge).

I do not mind being ranged only and sucking at melee, if there are as many ways for me to escape melee range and stay there as there are ways for melees to suck me in and keep me there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rather than see us get melee abilities, I would rather they just made it so hunters can do EVERYTHING on the run.  Everything.  If we have to keep range to use those abilities, then let us keep moving constantly.  Shorten the cooldown on Evasion.  Give us a Reverse Death Grasp, where we can bounce our target away from us (but not off an edge).</p>
<p>I do not mind being ranged only and sucking at melee, if there are as many ways for me to escape melee range and stay there as there are ways for melees to suck me in and keep me there.</p>
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		<title>By: Korzak</title>
		<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2009/02/12/dual-talent-spec-details/comment-page-2/#comment-38230</link>
		<dc:creator>Korzak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 15:48:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maniasarcania.com/?p=2458#comment-38230</guid>
		<description>There is no such things as too much whiteboard!  When I was in software, we used to whiteboard our lunch options :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is no such things as too much whiteboard!  When I was in software, we used to whiteboard our lunch options :)</p>
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		<title>By: Mania</title>
		<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2009/02/12/dual-talent-spec-details/comment-page-2/#comment-38224</link>
		<dc:creator>Mania</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 08:41:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maniasarcania.com/?p=2458#comment-38224</guid>
		<description>Gitsom: As far as I can tell, it works like this: 

Think of a two-sided whiteboard. You spend 79 levels working with your talents, glyphs, etc on one side of the whiteboard (in multicolored pens, of course). 

When you hit level 80, you have the option of flipping to the other (completely clean) side and working with a completely empty whiteboard ... er .. talent tree. You can draw something similar to what&#039;s on the first side (say, BM with a twist) or something different (say, SV) or nothing at all (I plan to leave one of my specs untalented for testing purposes). And at any time you can flip the board again, back to the first side, and keep working there. 

Once you are on a side, you can erase and rewrite (respec) or do whatever you normally do with your whiteboard/talents. So there&#039;s no special UI involved in &#039;setting&#039; or &#039;unsetting&#039; the talents within each of the two specs -- that&#039;s all like it&#039;s always been. There is only the UI of flipping the whiteboard to the other side (which is that whole Lexicon of Power thing).

Hmm ... no idea if that&#039;s helpful, but clearly I have been working too much with whiteboards this week. :&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gitsom: As far as I can tell, it works like this: </p>
<p>Think of a two-sided whiteboard. You spend 79 levels working with your talents, glyphs, etc on one side of the whiteboard (in multicolored pens, of course). </p>
<p>When you hit level 80, you have the option of flipping to the other (completely clean) side and working with a completely empty whiteboard &#8230; er .. talent tree. You can draw something similar to what&#8217;s on the first side (say, BM with a twist) or something different (say, SV) or nothing at all (I plan to leave one of my specs untalented for testing purposes). And at any time you can flip the board again, back to the first side, and keep working there. </p>
<p>Once you are on a side, you can erase and rewrite (respec) or do whatever you normally do with your whiteboard/talents. So there&#8217;s no special UI involved in &#8216;setting&#8217; or &#8216;unsetting&#8217; the talents within each of the two specs &#8212; that&#8217;s all like it&#8217;s always been. There is only the UI of flipping the whiteboard to the other side (which is that whole Lexicon of Power thing).</p>
<p>Hmm &#8230; no idea if that&#8217;s helpful, but clearly I have been working too much with whiteboards this week. :></p>
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		<title>By: Gitsom</title>
		<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2009/02/12/dual-talent-spec-details/comment-page-2/#comment-38223</link>
		<dc:creator>Gitsom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 07:22:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maniasarcania.com/?p=2458#comment-38223</guid>
		<description>I hope I haven&#039;t missed someone saying this earlier, but a question that comes to mind is this: Let&#039;s say you have already chosen your 2 builds that you want to have &quot;set&quot; as your dual specs, but you want to change one of them? I&#039;m curious as to how the interface for choosing or setting your builds will work, and haven&#039;t really seen any information/guesses on that yet...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope I haven&#8217;t missed someone saying this earlier, but a question that comes to mind is this: Let&#8217;s say you have already chosen your 2 builds that you want to have &#8220;set&#8221; as your dual specs, but you want to change one of them? I&#8217;m curious as to how the interface for choosing or setting your builds will work, and haven&#8217;t really seen any information/guesses on that yet&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Noba</title>
		<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2009/02/12/dual-talent-spec-details/comment-page-2/#comment-38218</link>
		<dc:creator>Noba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 23:28:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maniasarcania.com/?p=2458#comment-38218</guid>
		<description>Palla- you mentioned possibly making hunters have melee abilities. while this typically invokes giggles or scorn, it is an interesting idea, primarily to help the pvp challenges. One tree (since they are so similar right now anyway) could be changed to make your fighting style melee with very little range. It sounds crazy, but Beast Mastery seems the most viable talent tree to change. It lacks an intelligent shot rotation anyway when compared to the other two trees, and obviously &quot;marksman&quot; should by no means become melee. Some other games have classes where your character has a wild beast pet (i&#039;m thinking everquest, and that other game (war?) where you have a white lion knight or whatever).  Long story short, they could consider a very radical change, where deep in the BM tree, there is a talent which CHANGES your shots/abilities range from the usual up to 30 yards to something like 0-5 yards. Basically,your damaging shots, stings, ect, would become melee range. A few things could remain distance I suppose, such as concussive shot if you wish to flee battle. (I think making all shots work in melee AND range is overpowered and should not be done.)  With the &quot;new&quot; BM spec, you love your pet so much, you charge right in beside them, meleeing mobs with your pet.  

/end book.  Ok,so that&#039;s a pretty radical change, which may be disliked by many. But it could make one of the trees quite different from the others, and perhaps mend our pvp woes.  Just tossing ideas, Palla&#039;s comment got me thinking. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Palla- you mentioned possibly making hunters have melee abilities. while this typically invokes giggles or scorn, it is an interesting idea, primarily to help the pvp challenges. One tree (since they are so similar right now anyway) could be changed to make your fighting style melee with very little range. It sounds crazy, but Beast Mastery seems the most viable talent tree to change. It lacks an intelligent shot rotation anyway when compared to the other two trees, and obviously &#8220;marksman&#8221; should by no means become melee. Some other games have classes where your character has a wild beast pet (i&#8217;m thinking everquest, and that other game (war?) where you have a white lion knight or whatever).  Long story short, they could consider a very radical change, where deep in the BM tree, there is a talent which CHANGES your shots/abilities range from the usual up to 30 yards to something like 0-5 yards. Basically,your damaging shots, stings, ect, would become melee range. A few things could remain distance I suppose, such as concussive shot if you wish to flee battle. (I think making all shots work in melee AND range is overpowered and should not be done.)  With the &#8220;new&#8221; BM spec, you love your pet so much, you charge right in beside them, meleeing mobs with your pet.  </p>
<p>/end book.  Ok,so that&#8217;s a pretty radical change, which may be disliked by many. But it could make one of the trees quite different from the others, and perhaps mend our pvp woes.  Just tossing ideas, Palla&#8217;s comment got me thinking. :)</p>
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		<title>By: Fireshade</title>
		<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2009/02/12/dual-talent-spec-details/comment-page-2/#comment-38207</link>
		<dc:creator>Fireshade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 09:12:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maniasarcania.com/?p=2458#comment-38207</guid>
		<description>I can honestly say that untill I had to respec from BM hybrid to survival for my raid group (they needed the replenishment from a survival hunter and I am the only hunter in the raid) I wasent overly interested in the dual specs for my hunter, but now that I have two spec. one for raiding and one for soloing I am looking forward to it purely from the cost of two respecs a week now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can honestly say that untill I had to respec from BM hybrid to survival for my raid group (they needed the replenishment from a survival hunter and I am the only hunter in the raid) I wasent overly interested in the dual specs for my hunter, but now that I have two spec. one for raiding and one for soloing I am looking forward to it purely from the cost of two respecs a week now.</p>
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		<title>By: Palladiamors</title>
		<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2009/02/12/dual-talent-spec-details/comment-page-2/#comment-38199</link>
		<dc:creator>Palladiamors</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 20:42:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maniasarcania.com/?p=2458#comment-38199</guid>
		<description>Not Korzak, Wellhung. Blaugh, must get more sleep.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not Korzak, Wellhung. Blaugh, must get more sleep.</p>
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