136 thoughts on “BM 2B Buffed”

1. Noba: My first computer was a Commodore 128, which like most computers of that day had an integrated keyboard rather than a detachable one. I used it for so many years that the N key quit working. However, the only thing I used it for was BBSing — arguably the very early precursor to this blog. :> And luckily all my BBSing was done through a program that supported text macros, so before the N key quit entirely I macro’d “n” and “N” to Shift-1 and Shift-2 respectively. And over the next year I learned to type quite well despite the freque[Shift-1]t i[Shift-1]terruptio[Shift-1]s.

   Sorry .. you just reminded me of that. :>

2. lol _ania. i didnt get co_puters till ~99 or 2000, so i _issed out on fastened keys i think. but _acroing it was a good idea there. cant say i_ surprised you typed on it so _uch it quit working though. :p This dog attack was rather sudden. he was on the couch, and as i pulled hi_ down,he didnt want to go. thrashed all around, his back foot clawing up a key. :/ (b_ nerf bat _ust not have hit Boo_er.) gonna take it up to the store and have so_eone who knows what they’re doing try to pop it back in.

3. Okay, Scott? What part of the BM tree gives a pet more threat generation outside of white damage? I HAVE leveled as Marksman, and I HAVE leveled as SV, thank you very much, both to old world levle sixty, one on a PvP server as horde and one on a PvE server. And this was back in the day when it was, ya know, kind of a challenge. Its called CONTROLLING YOUR THREAT. *GASP* Amazing thing? I did it BEFORE the Wrath patch, so don’t try and feed me that crap. If you can’t lay off long enough to let your pet get in a growl or two before going shot happy, thats your problem, not the BM trees. What I said was they over nerfed BM. Period. Before the patch my beast master killed things as fast or faster then my other high levels. After? The only thing he can kill faster then is my HOLY PALADIN.

   I do not want beast master to be the be all end all. In fact, I hate it when it is. Stupid people flock into the spec and you get all the “OMG, you didn’t spec this way?!” things going on like they know your spec better then you do. What I AM saying is that the balance needs to be better. The BM tree was over nerfed, and the SV tree over buffed. If you want to focus on soloing, great, be my guest. But don’t get pissed at people for not wanting BM to be the lowest tree, either.

   CONTROL YOUR AGGRO. Do I need to say it again? Use a tenacity pet, take guard dog, let it get off TWO growls. Six seconds won’t kill you. THEN you can unload to your hearts content, and when/if aggro comes off on you, you won’t have to melee long. If I can keep aggro on a GHOUL for any length of time, you darn well better be able to keep aggro on a tenacity pet. This is a serious matter of you learning how to adjust your play style JUST A HAIR in order to make things easier for yourself.

   On elites you’ll have to improvise. There’s that word, improvise. Mend pet, and let your pet take a beating. Use your better judgement, if you can wait for three growls, great. If not, play it by ear. If your above seventy, misdirect and unload, starting off with either chimera shot or explosive, spec depending. If your marksman hit it with serpent sting BEFORE misdirection, just in case, then misdirect. The keyword here is to unload. Your TRYING to take aggro off of your pet. Since your not beast master you don’t have the 5% additional health and 20% additional armor boost, so it can’t take quite as much, and you don’t want it to die. ((As an alternative, take a ferocity and if something goes wrong, you have heart of the phoenix. Not a good alternative, as dying wipes your pets threat, but it is there.)) Once it comes off on you, melee it and let your pet get in a few more ticks of mend pet. Try not to take to much damage, because the next time you take aggro you’ll have it for a little bit. ((Also note, traps are important here. Lay one down before the fith starts. Wait for most of the cooldown to be up I suggest immolation trap since it is a single target elite we’re talking about, but use your judgement)) Now feign death. Feign death is your BEST friend, and thirty seconds is not to long for it. Lay a new trap, preferable right on top of your target, then step back. Let your pet take a beating again. You probably won’t be able to wait to long, so make sure you have mend pet. Unload. This is the part where you’ll probably take some damage, but the new disengage and deterrence are wonderful stall tools. Use them. Potion if you need to, then feign off the second the cooldown is up. Mend pet before you feign! Rinse, lather repeat.

   Don’t tell me it doesn’t work. I just respecced three times for the sole purpose of testing it, and for the sole purpose of testing my ‘soloing’ capabilities as the other two specs past seventy. I pulled aggro faster then usual when I did unload, which was to be expected, but funny thing there, they were usually dead before they got to me, or close enough that a few melee’s or a disengage and a chimera/explosive shot finished the fight nicely. In fact, if anything soloing was EASIER as those two, simply because it went faster. I also took the liberty of testing it on the closest group quest mob to my level, Harold Lane at level seventy two, three man quest. It was EASIER then when my beast master did it PRE-NERF, simply because my damage was so much higher.

   And now I have written a small novel. But seriously, scott, if you having trouble soloing, stop trying to blame the spec, and start looking at your play style. I have been playing pet classes since Everquest, and making them work fairly well. It isn’t hard, but some times it does require something more then just ‘pew pew pew’. And don’t you DARE say “But I shouldn’t have to wait to unload!” Please.

4. *pokes Palladiamors*

   To redirect some of your anger from someone who probably has a rogue for a main, there is a problem now with growl and pet threat overall, this is not of ‘omg unloading everything’ or even me trying to blame a specc like this user. And this isn’t a defence.

   A friend and I were farming those shadow spirit deals in WG for the daily, my pet was Jupiter, my Spirit Beast, Jupiter got off an intimidate a couple of growls and I used one arcane and one auto. The Auto crit.

   I imidiately got to 80% threat according to my threat/aggro meter.

   Before this, I had my Rhino with me farming mobs. One crit and I nearly pulled threat off from my Rhino- yes it has Guard Dog and no I was not unloading everything into it. You may have a point BM was to strong, and you do agree it is to over nerfed, but they shouldn’t have nerfed pets as badly as they did, atleast have kept KS at 20%

   The ONLY pet of mine that is not having trouble atm is my Hydra, so I’m thinking they could have done something to Exotics when we weren’t looking :/

   Know this is off topic but trying to divert a all out war

5. Palla – I’ll say whatever I please, fyi – and here’s a much needed lesson in observation for you… if you had spent less time assuming you know my playing style and more time just reading what I wrote, you’d have realized there was no need to compose a wall of useless banter that simply demonstrates you know nothing about me – great, you know how to hold back until your pet gets two “TWO” growls off – whoop dee doo Captain Obvious… we all know how to sit back and take fights niiice… aaannnd…. slowwww… lots of excitement there, to be sure. You’re going to wait for 10 seconds (if we’re still talking about trying to solo with a non-BM spec that is) of growls when the average (BM) solo fight is over in 10-15? That’s great.

   After 3.0 hit, I specced a couple of my hunters for SV and MM, and found they were pulling aggro with nothing more than autoshot – in one case from a “gorilladin”; and yes, this was done by the numbers – send pet in, wait for contact, wait for growl, then just turn on auto shot and… voila, mob was ignoring my pet within a couple seconds.

   Now, on my SV hunter I adapted by using movement inhibiting pets, traps and regular backwards leaping, and that worked out pretty well, but A) there’s only so many movement inhibiting pets, and B) it’s nice not to *have* to do that every fight. As for MM – using chimaera right up front before your sting has had much time to accrue dmg isn’t very mana efficient; still not a bad tactic but it’s not going to enjoy anywhere near the efficiency in solo that explosive shot will.

   There’s a reason why the overwhelming majority recommendation for solo spec is BM (or at least was, until explosive shot became the new “I win” button); it’s because common sense tells us that if solo’ing is really your bag, then there is no reason to put up with the slow, drawn out method when a BM spec can do it faster simply because his pet keeps aggro – otherwise, if solo’ing is just something you do to kill time before the next raid then yes by all means go MM or SV; that’s a perfectly valid justification.

   Now I’ve said explosive shot is OP, and naturally will be throwing off stats on dps charts – however leaving that problem aside (and hoping it gets looked at further by Blizzard), I don’t mind doing 10-15% less damage than MM specs in a group with my BM hunters in exchange for them being able to solo at full power instead of holding back like 50% of what I could be doing – if I wanted to group more I’d just respec to something with better firepower and put up with its delicate solo needs the rest of the time.

   Pretty simple really.

6. Hey Ryai, is claiming my main is a “rogue” the way to “divert an all out war”? Really?

7. *sighs* I know, Ryai. I noticed that myself earlier. But I managed to make it work anyway. I do apologize for exploding, but I am more then a bit aggrivated about being over nerfed. I have two characters I consider my mains ((Although they aren’t always my two highest levels)) and those two classes and specs I enjoy. Enjoyed. My holy paladin, and my beast master hunter. The wrath patch? Saw my paladins seal and judgement damage cut in a third and a half, respectively. Holy shock recieved a fair buff, but that also saw me relying on a more expensive form of DPS. But my real issue there was that every other healing class got a fair sized DPS increase with the spellpower change over…..and my spec just happened to be the only one with a damage cut. It wasn’t a huge damage cut after holy shock was figured in, but it was a cut, and it required substantially MORE mana to bring myself back up to speed. My HEALING went up (Whoo hoo!)) but I got exactly one sub par healing tool to work with, beacon of light. This is NOT an AoE heal. This is a sub-par way of trying to save multiple targets after an AoE attack. It requires more attention then usual to make it effective, a fair sized chunk of mana for each cast, and far to effected by lack of overheal. Paladins were relegated, once more, to ‘tank’ healers, while druids were given ‘enough tools to flesh out their kit’ and even shaman were given an HoT.

   I was more or less okay with my hunter. His damage was to high, can’t deny that, and freezing arrow is….less then stellar at the moment. And then we get a nerf that chops off around a quarter of our pets damage? The steady shot nerf wasn’t as bad, but the arcane shot nerf didn’t make up for pets losing so much DPS. It’s just infuriating that people told Blizzard and told Blizzard, repeatedly that the buff was to much. The hunters on the PTRs who did test it took it to them, the theory crafters ((A nessecary evil)) told them, and I wouldn’t be suprised if an internal tester or two told them. Now we get “Whoops! Well, look at that, we were wrong. Well, you’ll get a fix in the next two/six months!”

   Its just……annoying.

8. No from how you phrased things from what I glanced over and how pissed off everyone was getting. Whenever I’m in a BG, or viewing a thread someone on a rogue, alt or main is causing trouble somewhere.

   The divert the fight was my poke at Growl.

   And tbh I don’t think that is a valid reason cause ‘oh SV and MM have tough times soloing!’ I have a couple alts, one is mm the other was rerolled mm, and they aren’t having problems. Ofc they’re both under level 40, so this is probably the point, but it’s >wrong< to say BM should suffer in PVP and PVE just cause it’s got ‘good soloing capability’

   So does that mean Tankadins should suddenly NOT be able to tank so well because smart people can farm with them?

   Tyvm. Really.

9. I’m not going to repeat myself. You are showing an extreme lack of knowledge here. You wait ten seconds. You drop it in the next ten. A beast master can go full on for the same amount of time, but without using beastial wrath, guess what? Its still a twenty second fight. At MOST, we are looking at a five to ten second difference in a fight ending. And past sixty? THAT ADVANTAGE GOES TO MM AND SV. Beast masters get BEAST MASTERY at sixty. BEAST MASTERY. Which does VERY LITTLE for the damage done from our pets. Beastial wrath is STILL the go to button for hunters, and it STILL has at LEAST a one minute fifteen secondish cooldown, talented and glyphed. Pre-sixty…..if your having problems leveling pre-sixty that don’t involve not dying of boredom, then I truly pity you. After sixty you have access to Chimera or explosive, and since your survival, that gives you the currently overpowered explosive. That means that by holding back for JUST those few seconds, you can then end a fight JUST AS FAST AS A BEASTMASTER DOES. Don’t believe me? Go try it. You’ll find that your survival spec is killing faster and with less downtime then your beast master.

   The reason Ryai said that? Because your acting like you want to go full on, all the time, with no reprecussions. “WAUGH, why can’t I go full on all the time like beast master?” BECAUSE YOUR NOT. That isn’t your spec, you don’t want to spec that way. Fine, thats great. Don’t bash another spec JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN’T PLAY THAT WAY.

10. lol double post >->

    /pat

    I’m figuring this could be a way to ‘force people to respecc’ or Blizz is just being lazy :/ I don’t understand why cut healing or damage from classes, cause even tho you did mention Druids got buffed, Lifebloom was nerfed and my friends are balance and their speccs got fiddled with as hard as BM did.

    If you think you’re outburst was bad well :c see a mad druid sometime.

    But that’s not really the point, with what you mention about your pally, and what’s going on with hunters, yet again, it seems Blizzard only really favors, the rogues, the warlocks and well mages.

    I’ve seriously seen mages twoshot people >.o

    I would suggest rolling retrilol if you didn’t like holydins so much, but then that’d also be like me saying it’s ok to respecc when Blizz screws you over! .-.

    I also hate what they did to the seals and judgements, ok sure it was a nice change but now I have so much crap on my bars and I’m a mouse clicker so it’s like xxxx seals and xxxx judgments and then my heals and my bubbles and can’t forget HoW!

    It’s why I like BM hunters ._. I really don’t mind being a ‘one button class’, it’s easy, simple, and I can go full out kapew when I choose to, and not every single fight like with my pally

11. I tried on the beta. *Chuckles* I did retri for a while, and….it just isn’t that character. I am leveling a new paladin for the purpose, but I am going to stick to holy. I love my spec, I just hate the treatment it is getting, ya know? Que sera, sera I suppose.

12. I love BM and Ret as much as you love BM n Holy lol so I understand, Ryai just didn’t feel right as MM or SV on the PTR even when I was doing more damage with non exotics.

    Ryai was BM from lv 10 lol- even when a friend who has a shammy insulted the class for as I said ‘one button class’, I liked it, just felt right, I was a hunter, I had a pet, so hunter + pet = Beast mastery in my eyes. Big Red Pet is win too.

    And yeah whatever will be will be :s

    But if Blizz really DID want to even out hunters- why not flatline the dps for all hunters, same with pets. So it really is the skill not the class. And to stop the complaining about exotics get 10% buff so bm automatically gets xx boost, drop exotics, make nearly all beasts tameable.

    No whining no crying, no rock, scissor, paper deal. Everyone is fair and equal.

    But bet someone would still complain.

13. Hey as a Balance druid I get full rights to whine at the resto cracks at us and starfail and you know it :) Blizz and their infamous sledgehamemr cracks… Well as Druid is my favourite and being Balance I get hit by them a lot unfortantely (And the beloved, whoops we forgot your gear!) so know the feeling exactly.

    I worry also as Ryai is our Tank (Hydra ftw!) when I’m on a less suicidal conscious kick so any screw ups they make knocks that too :/ Glad my Hunters aren’t high enough to be ping ponged this much just yet.

14. Some one will ALWAYS complain, Ryai. *LAUGHS* It is the way of some people. Things have to be overwhelmingly in their favor before they even start to consider it fair. I’ll work with what I have. I leveled 10-current 72 as holy, and holy I’ll stay. Same with my hunter and beast mastery ((Aside from the occasional test respec)). It does bug me when they nerf me so hard, but eh, I’ll deal with it. Anyone who loves the spec will deal with it, and keep going. Its the same with any spec. As always, the min/maxers will just keep doing whatever is popular and currently best. That’s just how some people are.

15. *LAUGHS* Yes, Aria, you get full ‘whine’ rights. Honestly, so does survival, they have been so bad for so long. Beast master only gets partial whine rights, for being over nerfed. Not for the nerf itself, which was needed, but for it going to far.

    And trust me, the whole gear thing I have understood for years. Spellpower plate is virtually non-existant before Outlands. In Northrend, the new craze is haste for spellpower plate, which I despise. But eh, you learn to play cards and deal!

16. I leveled in Vanilla WC, Balance gear simply did not exist. It was heal gear or hybrid (Since even Ferals had to go Rogue) and you were grateful for it. Oh and everyone was Resto and you got ridiculed mercilessly for daring to refuse to heal. I don’t miss those days at all; it was hell. Then we got to Outland and holy crap, gear! One of my few glee moments I admit there :)

    But isn’t it typical that they wham one spec and end up slamming another worse or buff one whilst nerfing the other (Looking at you Resto). I refuse to go Resto or Feral though, I love my class and I love my damn spec no matter how much they wreakingball it in the name of balance (Ironically). I’m sure there’s many a BM who feels the same way :)

17. *laughs Aria, finding intellect on plate back in the day came down to trying to find ‘of the eagle’ stuff. Forget spellpower. Paladins couldn’t really tank, couldn’t really heal, and couldn’t really do damage. *Chuckles* I definitely agree, I don’t miss those days all that much. Finding feral gear was easier…..ish. You had to fight rogues for it, who were always going “OMG, your a drood! You should be healing!” I did that on my druid too, unfortunately. *LAUGHS* I think the only class that wasn’t really restricted that I played was the warlock. Course people always seemed to look down on me for being demonology instead of affliction. Ahhhh, the old days! *off sarcasm*

18. *laughs* * For my classic correction double post! And something little this time too. Oh well.

19. How many of you showed up to MC raids in vanilla as BM?

    I enjoyed (and still do) the BM tree, and agree it should be on par with the other 2 specs. The point i was making was to balance the trees so each is raid viable.

    Note: I made no mention of DPS…we are not a pure dps class…BC babies are the only ones that think so.

20. I’m pretty sure paladins could heal – my brother healed raids pre-BC as a paladin.

    Not to say it was exciting.

    Flash of light… flash of light… flash of light… flash of light… flash of light…

21. No Cal. We couldn’t REALLY heal. We could sort of heal, but our real main stay was our longevity with mana. Since we could pretty much just flash of light ad infinitum, we managed to heal more and last longer then most other healers. But it wasn’t really effective, and like you say, it was boring as all get out. Sad thing? Flash of light is still pretty much it. You can spam holy light at high levels, but…..why waste the mana?

22. You know what, I am going to call myself on that. We could heal, but like everything paladins did, it wasn’t anywhere near as good as a pure class. We have gotten better, but we still haven’t gotten all the tools the other classes have gotten. Eh, que sera once more.

    Feign, I take it you remember when Spirit Bond was the 31 point talent? Yea, those were not good days to be a BM. But still, it was fun in its own way.

23. …. may as well join the arena here…. but I think what Palla said makes more sense. I’ve also played since the vanilla days and Survival always struck me as the odd tree out for a hunter. Granted a hunter had never been my main, but a shaman and a druid were my first toons before I tackled the hunter. Going by abilities and skills alone, hunters are more of a weaponized caster class than true casters or true weapon users. We barely have enough abilities to melee well…. OP explosive shot regardless, we’re more or less a poor man’s unholy spec Death Knight without it. I admit I love survival because the rotations ARE a challenge and take actual strategy with each fight, but it made more sense as a Hunter (if I had my way) to simply merge both BM and MM together with a dash of Survival thrown in between. But that’s just me…… everyone has his or her own playstyle… whatever works for someone does not necessarily mean it will work for the next person. Though I do admit to a truism that your starting character (or main, in this case) does bear some influence on how you play and look at the next class you decide to roll for.

24. To clarify, I have healed just about everything as a holy paladin. I healed everything up to Naxx pre-TBC, and the only reason I didn’t heal that was because I’d taken a break. I didn’t heal as much TBC, for some reason I lost a lot of my drive there, and I am back to healing again in Wrath.

25. Yeah, i do 300 DPS right now as an 80 in mostly blues and a stray purple… my druid does 1200 in mostly greens. I’ve been playing my druid recently :D

26. Well, i was all down in the dumps and was very reluctant to play my hunter after the nerf. Now i can feel good about my hunter again! =D

27. Reading over the bosts I realise how bad it could still be for BM.

    Then I lol at the scary thought of Spirit Bond being even worse than it is now.

    But you are right about the whining level’s valve to shut off, Palla, I am still uncertain about the nerf being needed [as well I never got the high numbers anyways :c] but my whining really is the pet nerf cause for BM, pet’s get to be 50% of ur damage.

    Dooooh D8

    I’m fine with balancing, I’m not fine with over nerfing. But since you already agree everyone is happy and for the most part people have stopped wanting to torch blizzard :x

    Tho like Aria I am worried- atm we’re just really running Strat for Pony and SV for rep, tho there’s been a couple close calls in SV.

    But we’re still working out the kinks of NO DONT BREAK ICE TRAP anyways XD

    But after a two man of Aria and my Belf thru Underbog [oh boy that was fun, pull wrong instant death!] sadly I am thinking that non exotic tanks might have been the only ones >not>

    Guess I got testing to do when my realm is back up [if I remember to test this out between dailies and leveling lol]

28. I forgot the brackets cause text to be ate /doh

    ‘not affected as even on one mob, a lv 80 going full out took a while to peal aggro off the warpy.

    Cause I mean it’s just, strange, my main is pulling aggro/threatening to and the ones I use the most are exotics, yet a warp ate face and held aggro better >>

    Guess I got testing to do when my realm is back up [if I remember to test this out between dailies and leveling lol]‘

    Backbutton ftw.

29. Well aside from Boglords, they liked me far too much for you to get aggro off me :(

30. scott: With those “tougher solo” ideas, you sound like you want leveling/questing to be a group thing, and in that case, you’re playing the wrong MMO.
    Although nonelites did seem to die much faster when I finally replaced my BC weapons/armor, that felt pretty awesome.

31. So we get to sit around with a sub par dps spec for 3 or so months. If they can ninja nerf my pally 3 times in a week, they can ninja buff my hunter the same way.

32. Know i have been BM for a long time on my main and i got tired of it when i hit 80, well when blizz realeased the 3.08 patch notes i thought i should change so i tried surv and found it fun since shooting explosive shoot was fun and was different, well it was rather hard climbing the dps meters as surv (though tanks liked my trap lock)survivail just couldn’t make enough dps.. so i waited and with the new changes explosive PWNs so i don’t complain… but common i could be in top of the dps meters in heroics by sending in pet and volley’ing

33. I admit I haven’t read all the comments… but that’s because most of you are whining like rogues or mages. (to rogue/mage players that don’t whine, I apologigze.)
    Yes, Bliz over nerfed BM. Yes, there are still pet skill autocast issues. But they acknowledged they over nerfed BM within a month of the patch. That is a very good sign. We must stay positive, and give real feedback and real numbers for them to look at. I think of it this way: If the hunter community whines the least, and gives the most constructive feedback, and posts testing numbers they can use more than other classes, won’t they be more likely to work on our problems first? When I have a long list of things to do of equal importance, I always knock out the easier tasks first, and I’d bet the blizz team does too. If you really, truly believe they never listen, and that they secretly hate hunters, and that they’re “worse than , leave and take your negative attitude with you. You’re not helping. Really.
    In short, you should be ashamed of yourselves for bitching. There is a line between stating a problem and flat out whining like a spoiled child, and I’ve seen far too many hunters slide into the latter category recently. We are not broken, just wounded. If we act with some dignity, we can at least look better than every other class that whines when a nerf comes around, and we just might get rewarded for our maturity too.

34. Ralowae:
    “I think of it this way: If the hunter community whines the least, and gives the most constructive feedback, and posts testing numbers they can use more than other classes, won’t they be more likely to work on our problems first?”

    No, no they aren’t. Now I’m not saying people can’t whine, hell, they paid their $15 a month, they can whine all they want ;) However, Blizzard screwed up this. Big Time. Hunters DID give constructive feedback. Hunters DID post numbers. And what did Blizzard do? NOTHING. They went ahead with a patch that SEVERAL reliable testers called “overnerfing” right from the start. I don’t think Blizzard deserves a not whining day.

    This is like in those cartoons when henchmen say “hey boss, let’s use plan A!” and the boss ignores them, then 5 minutes later after realizing the error of the first idea, the boss says “Hey, I know, let’s use plan A!”

    Am I whining? Possibly. But I have every right and intention for doing so. Why should I give Blizzard a pat on the back for realizing their mistake when thousands of others, myself included, posted numbers and spreadsheets from testing on the PTR saying “Hey guys, you’re making a mistake; look” and they not listen?

    “When I have a long list of things to do of equal importance, I always knock out the easier tasks first, and I’d bet the blizz team does too. If you really, truly believe they never listen, and that they secretly hate hunters, and that they’re “worse than , leave and take your negative attitude with you. You’re not helping. Really.”

    There’s no other way around it this time. Blizzard messed up. People are upset. They have a right to be. What good is the PTR if Blizzard isn’t going to listen and adjust things PRIOR to the patch release? If Blizzard cared about easier tasks being fixed first, then why isn’t the autocast bug fixed? Yet they fixed mount animations for the red drake and white drake to look different. What the hey- those weren’t even Broken like Autocast is, but they got fixed in a single patch while the autocast bug has been present for quite some time now.

    Yes, people are going to whine no matter what. I agree that some people whine like kids while others whine a little less. But this time, I say, let them whine! Why should Blizzard be cut some slack for a mistake they made? And we don’t even know WHEN this is getting fixed either. It could be next week, it could be until 3.1 content patch.

    Sorry if I sound rough, I’m not meaning to, I just want people to realize that while people are whining this time, I personally find it justified.

35. I’m afraid I haven’t really been following this discussion thread that closely. To be honest, the topic is a bit outside my current interests (i.s. not about pets directly). I’ve skimmed the responses but not much more. And you guys seem to be doing fine on your own. :>

    But I did want to mention this: if you feel that someone has stepped over the lines defined in the comment policy here, please e-mail me and let me know.

    I’m not bringing this up for a particular reason and this is not a reflection of anyone who commented recently — I just thought I’d better add a caveat since I’m not reading as closely as I usually do.

36. I think everything is over now, Mania. Tempers are high, and triggers are activating on a hair right now, so everyone is jumping the gun and onto each other. I personally have just been rubbed raw by Blizzards two talking. “We want all classes to be equal! Oh, wait, not that class, it can be behind.” “We want to give druids enough tools to fill out their kit! Paladins? What, flash of light, holy light, and holy shock aren’t enough for you?” “Retribution is OP, so we’re going to slap it on the wrist. Beast master is OP, so we’re going to destroy about a full quarter of their DPS.” …….if it were just this time, I’d get over it. But any of the old timers, people who have been here since at least months before TBC, have seen this song and dance over and over. Those are just recent examples, and honestly those are just a few, and of my favored classes. It just gets old after a while.

    At LEAST Ghostcrawler apologized, which is about the only thing about the whole blasted situation that gives any indication of hope. Usually Blizzard spouts some nonsense about “Working as intended” no matter how nasty the nerf or buff is. SO maybe that is a step in the right direction, eh?

37. @Rikaku
    I worded some of what I said poorly. Let me clarify.
    I am in no way shape or form saying we don’t have the right to be upset or that bliz didn’t screw up. I’m saying we need to be more careful how we express it. If every complaint is accompanied by evidence that blizzard screwed up, it isn’t just whining.
    Griping is totally justified, I’m just saying we need to do it constructively.

38. I am not condoning the ‘whiner’s in any way. The thing is, whiners usually accompany their whines with insults or other deaming behavior that really just makes us all look bad. However it is hard to tell when what we’re saying is getting through to Blizzard. I hate to sound the pessimist, but usually it doesn’t. Every community has explained its problems down through the years. Sometimes Blizzard listens ((I am not going to point fingers at which classes are the most listened to, its a tired old argument)), usually they don’t. That isn’t nessecarily bad. However we have had problems as simple as the dead zone bug that hung around for three years, and wasn’t addressed until much later. How many times have hunters asked, and rightfully so, for pets to get a portion of quest experience? ((I bring this up because I just did a quest chain in Zul Drak. During this quest chain you had to kill a total of five mobs. Five. Mobs. And the chain gave me roughly a half a level in experience.)) How many times have we asked for our pets to recieve a portion of our resilience? Things like this, what amount to major, but fairly important things that go totally unheard.

    It is important to make yourself heard. It is also important to do it in a constructive, helpful manner. But almost as important is to not be to suprised if no one responds.

39. I would be happy if pets didn’t need to level at all- you want to tame a pet your level or below your level? Shazzam! It’s level xx like you! [if it was below your level], I mean I just find it sad DK and Warlock pets level up with their ‘masters’, mean between the times of my constant fiddling with my DK’s tree, he was more unholy than blood, turned in a quest, DING GOES THE LIGHTS- and up went the lights for my pet too.

    Since Loyalty is no longer a factor, because pets don’t need it anymore for talents and huzzah you can make a pet happy via using growl, carrion feeder or feed pet! And mend pet for those of you without the broken glyphs! They should cut out the silly leveling deal period, I mean it just doesn’t make sense anymore- sure keep the factor of being unable to tame pets higher than your level, ingame, but anything lv 60 and below, 70 and below or 80 and below that is tameable, should jump right to your level.

    And speaking of DZ, I’ve had times when it pops up, not often mind you, not often enough to get the fear back into the hunter comunity, but it’s really strange when the mob shuffles, and you pause in attacking, or all a sudden your hunter is wielding the bow like a 2hander and it’s just, no, just no.

    And I did check to make sure it wasn’t a graphic error, a wall of pet/mob damage and none of mine kinda proved that >>

    Palla, you could reroll a rssto shammy btw, not as a fix or lolz you should cause blizz screwed you, way either, but when a shammy pops the chain healing correctly it’s just a mass of lines.

    And it heals pet too :D

    *Shot**dies*

    In all seriousness I just wish Blizzard would realise there is NO true balance, even Rock vs Paper vs Scissors will fail, from skill/luck/timing.

    And kiting. I nearly defeated a paladin 1v1. >.o stupid shield throwing attack and bubbles

40. *chuckles* I have one, Ryai. I bounce between enhancement and restoration. My druid bounces between feral and restoration. The only two I can’t seem to bounce are my paladin and my hunter. Its really odd, I just have to create new hunters, or a new paladin. Unfortunately, leveling a paladin is a lot like watching grass grow, no matter your spec…. “OMG! Seal of command went off! Yay!”

41. Blizzard: “All classes are equal….but some classes are more equal than others!” XD just tossing a little Animal Farm in there, as it seems to fit. lol.

42. Oh it fits perfectly…. *LAUGHS*

43. Noba:
    You just got yourself added to a forum signature man XD

44. I have … 25 hunters. Only three got past lv 40 atm 8D

    lv 52, 68 and 80.

    And yeah, I can agree with that, only got one paladin, and the only reason I was able to get him to lv 40 was the single mantra of HORSE HORSE HORSE HORSE HORSE HORSE ding yay HORSEHORSEHORSE

    ohcrap pulled to many mobs, bubble CD bubble #2 cd! LoH cd! ohcrap *death*

    Leveling my pally is more fun nwhen I drag my friend around on his druid alt, mass pulls = insanity. Especially when you’re trying to CLICK AROUND THE BIG BUTT OF BEARDRUID :v

    Tho my pally bounced between Prot and Ret untill I realised lol I don’t have the skill or attention span to tank, and went back to Ret.

    And Lol @ Noba, and unfortunately, your statement is true XD

45. After reading through some of these comments. I find myself sitting here laughing at a few people over comments that say BM is the only solo talent tree for the hunter. I will admit that it is the easier tree to level up with but it is not the only tree. I have leveled a hunter from 1-70 as MM and changed to BM for raiding, the changed to a MM spec to level up to 80. BM is a good spec and was the only spec for raiding in BC because of the cookie cutter crap that all hunter were pushed into.

    But in all fairness, MM and Surv (Never touched the Surv tree yet) are just as good a tree for leveling/raiding now in the new expansion that hopefully we will see more MM hunters running around.

46. *chuckles* Crush, in vanilla WoW, MM was considered to be the best of the three trees. BC, well, cookie cutter BM and steady shot ruled there. I think its about time for survival to be on top for a bit. Not at the cost of the other two trees, mind you, but it does deserve the boost.

47. I think Palla, that you and I have probably been playing around the same time. Most of the Hunters I’ve met say that BM has been the best for as long as they can remember, which means obviously they weren’t around in the days when people literally bombed Ogrimmar and Ironforge with their pets after MC runs. Literally, I remember when you HAD to be MM to raid back in the day. Most guilds wouldn’t even let a Hunter have their pet out during a raid cause of the paranoia that pets would screw something up or aggro and what not.

    It is good to see SV finally have some love, but I’m with Palla not at the expense of the other 2 trees. Though, i’m still BM as we speak and I have yet to see a SV hunter top me in heroics (though our guild SV hunters, both of whom are very good hunters, do top me, but they topped me even as BM when they were BM X3)

48. *chuckles* Yup, I remember those days. Rikaku. ‘Is that a pet?! WHO BROUGHT A PET!!! /raid kick”. Can’t say I miss them. *LAUGHS* I THINK more then half of the people playing WoW now started out in The burning crusade. For some reason the first expansion was this signal for a huge influx of players. I ain’t saying that they aren’t qualified to comment on the current situation…..just that people who have been around since the beginning and closer to the beginning understand the situation a bit better. People who started in TBC started in the BM hayday. All they’ve ever known was a strong BM spec. Those who started before, well…..as I said above, our thirty one point talent used to be spirit bonds, and it was worse then then it is now. Now it at least adds a plus to healing. However, these people didn’t know the joy that was the original beastial wrath. Doubled attack power for twelve seconds. They tried to justify it by saying that it last longer meant more damage, but that was Blizzard calculators going ’1+1=yellow’ again. 50% for eighteen does NOT equal 100% for 12. ((As a side note, you do actually get more damage out of the ability itself for the eighteen second span. But that is only because it goes for six seconds longer. Add in the damage your pet will be doing for the 6 other seconds for the 2x damage version of beastial wrath and you get more damage out of the old one. I pulled up a calculator just to make sure I wasn’t being stupid.)) I was also a much bigger fan of the old mend pet, though FINALLY getting the rank 74 version has softened me up to the new one a bit.

    Speaking of which, and this is a total side note, but mend pet needs to scale with SOMETHING. I am sorry, but my warlock can restore close to triple the damage to his minion as my hunter can to his pet, AND HEALTH FUNNEL SCALES. So it’ll just keep getting better and better….. I say this as some one who solo’s a LOT and doesn’t always have a healer handy. *Read:Almost never* I STILL have no real clue as to why mend pet doesn’t scale.

49. As a side note, the damage for the other six seconds was figured in as normal damage, not on a 2x modifier for the old beastial wrath. The difference wasn’t huge, only about 1/10th really, but this was probably the first major beast master nerf. Believe me, it was pure joy to watch a pet in those twelve seconds. Course pets didn’t SCALE then, but for some reason they still managed to feel stronger then they sometimes end up feeling now. How odd.

50. Okay…this is disturbing…I’m totally disappointed with Blizzard’s way of “equalizing” classes. All they did was nerf BM so completely because a bunch of newbcakes QQ’d about BAD hunters who don’t trap, don’t MD, and do nothing but spam steady shot and serpent sting.

    I am a proud BM, I am a professional. To me the Hunter is all about the pet, and I love them all… I know my class, I do decent DPS even after the patch, but i’m NAXX-25 and T7.5 epic’d out (won’t give up my sphere of red dragon’s blood tho…wow that trinket needs to be epic it’s so good), and I’ve noticed my pets took a big hit. I know my spec, I know my pet’s optimum spec, and I’m widely considered the expert on rare pets on my server…just because of a few QQing whack-jobs we didn’t deserve the nerf we got slapped with. For god’s sake…

    I am Harana of Frostwolf, US. I implore BLIZ to fix Kindred Spirits and restore most of what they took away…on behalf of my sweet, cuddly and cute pets, I Implore you!

    Petition Signed by:

    Wiggles – L80 Spirit Beast
    Stompy – L80 Green Devilsaur (AKA King Krush)
    Sprinkles – L80 Purple Chimaera (AKA Nuramoc)
    Snowflake – L80 Albino Ape (AKA Uhc’Loc)
    Angel – L80 Ghostsaber