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	<title>Comments on: Upcoming Hunter Changes</title>
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	<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2008/12/09/upcoming-hunter-changes/</link>
	<description>Hunter pets in the World of Warcraft.</description>
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		<title>By: Belladonia</title>
		<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2008/12/09/upcoming-hunter-changes/comment-page-2/#comment-36856</link>
		<dc:creator>Belladonia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 21:49:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maniasarcania.com/?p=2292#comment-36856</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not thrilled at all about the changes. I&#039;ve tried really hard to take a wait and see approach to this and for the most part I think its a mixed bag. But:

The post from GC about nerfing Steady shot to get hunters to use other shots... WTF? I already use the other shots - the problem on them isn&#039;t that they don&#039;t do as much damage its that the bloody CDs are FOREVER AND A DAY!!! You want me to use Arcane Shot, Aimed Shot or Multi-shot? Cut the CDs on those bad boys.
Cutting pet dps? Seriously, what is the point of being 51P BM if you don&#039;t get more damage off the exotic pets and of all the pets in general? In fact, what is the point of being a Hunter at all without Strong DPS from your Pet?

Volley - I&#039;ll admit it does need a bit of a nerf, but seriously a full 30%? 15% would do. For once in its sorry existence Volley had a reason to exist. 

Deterrence - sounds great, until you hit that whole &quot;from the front&quot; business... So what? If its a rogue I am officially a sitting duck because i can&#039;t attack it. And in reality - lets look at who the major nemesis for a hunter is... its not a lock or a mage - its a Rogue. And speaking of Rogues, I really hate to be the one to point this out... but WHY THE HELL AREN&#039;T THE ROGUES GETTING ANY OF NERFS??? I HAVEN&#039;T SEEN ROGUES GET A SERIOUS NERF IN AGES - And the ones on my server: They BRAG about that! And honestly - I hear a lot more people screaming day in and day out about some Rogue ganking them.

Maybe some hunters are pulling that kind of crazy DPS, but in general I haven&#039;t seen it. Again, I&#039;ll concede that Volley needed to be worked on - it really shouldn&#039;t be the Only shot being used in a raid. But some of these cuts are a little bit too deep.
I&#039;m kinda tired of the &quot;anti-hunter&quot; sentiment that I see all the time, I&#039;m tired of hearing/seeing the term &quot;huntard&#039;. In BC we were the first Class to get bent over, and this time we almost pulled that honor again - barely beaten out by Ret paladins.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not thrilled at all about the changes. I&#8217;ve tried really hard to take a wait and see approach to this and for the most part I think its a mixed bag. But:</p>
<p>The post from GC about nerfing Steady shot to get hunters to use other shots&#8230; WTF? I already use the other shots &#8211; the problem on them isn&#8217;t that they don&#8217;t do as much damage its that the bloody CDs are FOREVER AND A DAY!!! You want me to use Arcane Shot, Aimed Shot or Multi-shot? Cut the CDs on those bad boys.<br />
Cutting pet dps? Seriously, what is the point of being 51P BM if you don&#8217;t get more damage off the exotic pets and of all the pets in general? In fact, what is the point of being a Hunter at all without Strong DPS from your Pet?</p>
<p>Volley &#8211; I&#8217;ll admit it does need a bit of a nerf, but seriously a full 30%? 15% would do. For once in its sorry existence Volley had a reason to exist. </p>
<p>Deterrence &#8211; sounds great, until you hit that whole &#8220;from the front&#8221; business&#8230; So what? If its a rogue I am officially a sitting duck because i can&#8217;t attack it. And in reality &#8211; lets look at who the major nemesis for a hunter is&#8230; its not a lock or a mage &#8211; its a Rogue. And speaking of Rogues, I really hate to be the one to point this out&#8230; but WHY THE HELL AREN&#8217;T THE ROGUES GETTING ANY OF NERFS??? I HAVEN&#8217;T SEEN ROGUES GET A SERIOUS NERF IN AGES &#8211; And the ones on my server: They BRAG about that! And honestly &#8211; I hear a lot more people screaming day in and day out about some Rogue ganking them.</p>
<p>Maybe some hunters are pulling that kind of crazy DPS, but in general I haven&#8217;t seen it. Again, I&#8217;ll concede that Volley needed to be worked on &#8211; it really shouldn&#8217;t be the Only shot being used in a raid. But some of these cuts are a little bit too deep.<br />
I&#8217;m kinda tired of the &#8220;anti-hunter&#8221; sentiment that I see all the time, I&#8217;m tired of hearing/seeing the term &#8220;huntard&#8217;. In BC we were the first Class to get bent over, and this time we almost pulled that honor again &#8211; barely beaten out by Ret paladins.</p>
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		<title>By: Kooskoos</title>
		<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2008/12/09/upcoming-hunter-changes/comment-page-2/#comment-36841</link>
		<dc:creator>Kooskoos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Dec 2008 18:32:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maniasarcania.com/?p=2292#comment-36841</guid>
		<description>I agree with half of you why take out the only buff we hunter&#039;s can give to the party with out useing wolfs.  The only only thing I am likeing from this is the reduced kill shot CD.  And to make pets do even less damage the only point of BM is getting out of fear.  And to someone who said the 51 BM talent is dumb for the exotic pets is right, the only nice part to that talent is the bouns talent points your pet gets.  First a long time ago before TBC they took away pet speed(because casters were QQing about the broken tooth&#039;s attack speed) and now they want to take away more.  I just dont see what they are thinking when they decided these changes.  

And when hunters get out dpsed by so many classes( about all of them) they might as well make hunters a melee class.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with half of you why take out the only buff we hunter&#8217;s can give to the party with out useing wolfs.  The only only thing I am likeing from this is the reduced kill shot CD.  And to make pets do even less damage the only point of BM is getting out of fear.  And to someone who said the 51 BM talent is dumb for the exotic pets is right, the only nice part to that talent is the bouns talent points your pet gets.  First a long time ago before TBC they took away pet speed(because casters were QQing about the broken tooth&#8217;s attack speed) and now they want to take away more.  I just dont see what they are thinking when they decided these changes.  </p>
<p>And when hunters get out dpsed by so many classes( about all of them) they might as well make hunters a melee class.</p>
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		<title>By: Palladiamors</title>
		<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2008/12/09/upcoming-hunter-changes/comment-page-2/#comment-36748</link>
		<dc:creator>Palladiamors</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 21:06:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maniasarcania.com/?p=2292#comment-36748</guid>
		<description>Sig, a lot of it is timing, and honestly experience.  You really have to feel PvP out.  Your not always fighting the same things or people, so the tactics will change.  Your group will change, your opponent will change, and you have to learn to flow with it.  Sadly, the most important piece of advice I have offered is to stay with people.  Hunters are a destructive force unto themselves, so long as they can stay at a range.  Aimed single targets, multi if enough people are in close, stay behind people.  Especially healers.  They&#039;ll try to eat healers before they try to eat you, and that is your cue to nuke the daylights out of whatever is eating your healer.   Anyone can do it, it just takes time, and some common sense, and judgement calls.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sig, a lot of it is timing, and honestly experience.  You really have to feel PvP out.  Your not always fighting the same things or people, so the tactics will change.  Your group will change, your opponent will change, and you have to learn to flow with it.  Sadly, the most important piece of advice I have offered is to stay with people.  Hunters are a destructive force unto themselves, so long as they can stay at a range.  Aimed single targets, multi if enough people are in close, stay behind people.  Especially healers.  They&#8217;ll try to eat healers before they try to eat you, and that is your cue to nuke the daylights out of whatever is eating your healer.   Anyone can do it, it just takes time, and some common sense, and judgement calls.</p>
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		<title>By: Palladiamors</title>
		<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2008/12/09/upcoming-hunter-changes/comment-page-2/#comment-36747</link>
		<dc:creator>Palladiamors</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 21:03:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maniasarcania.com/?p=2292#comment-36747</guid>
		<description>Sic*  And slight edit, paladins also have judgement of justice, which works as a snare.  I play a holy paladin, and that is always on my hotbar when I PvP, and I forgot it... *Facepalm*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sic*  And slight edit, paladins also have judgement of justice, which works as a snare.  I play a holy paladin, and that is always on my hotbar when I PvP, and I forgot it&#8230; *Facepalm*</p>
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		<title>By: Sigrdrífa</title>
		<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2008/12/09/upcoming-hunter-changes/comment-page-2/#comment-36746</link>
		<dc:creator>Sigrdrífa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 21:01:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maniasarcania.com/?p=2292#comment-36746</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;@Palla&lt;/b&gt; &quot;Break a leg!&quot; (don&#039;t want to say break a finger, for you are keyboarding, lol) :) and ty for the tips.  I am going to reread them again a few more times.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>@Palla</b> &#8220;Break a leg!&#8221; (don&#8217;t want to say break a finger, for you are keyboarding, lol) :) and ty for the tips.  I am going to reread them again a few more times.</p>
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		<title>By: Palladiamors</title>
		<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2008/12/09/upcoming-hunter-changes/comment-page-2/#comment-36743</link>
		<dc:creator>Palladiamors</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:37:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maniasarcania.com/?p=2292#comment-36743</guid>
		<description>Ghanur, being in a number 1 raiding guild doesn&#039;t really mean much.  This blog isn&#039;t about skill.  It isn&#039;t about the DPS you can put out.  It isn&#039;t even about skill.  Its about having a love of pets, and the hunter class in general.  Your voice does mean something here, I prommise.

Hunter PvP has never been easy.  Doable, but not easy.  So much more complicated then other classes PvP, even casters.  That being said, anything caster is screwed from the get go against hunters.  Just remember to keep them at range with disengage and you&#039;ll be fine if your not under geared compared to them.  

But thats never been the problem, eh?  The problem was the OTHER six melee capable classes.  And still is.  The problem is, there are more and more counters to our counters for them.  The basics go like this:  Fire from a protected, non-obvious position.  I don&#039;t mean stand up on top of a cliff and fire down.  If you can manage to be out of intercept or death grip range, go for it.  Otherwise your just begging to be singled out.  Stay with as many people you can find.  Seriously.  Don&#039;t try to go solo as a hunter in PvP.  USE YOUR PET.  I am going to say that again, because of the sheer number of people I see with their pets on passive.  Sometimes exotic pets on passive.  USE YOUR PET.  Find a healer, and ctrl 1 or whatever your pet attack is them.  No healer, find the next squishiest thing.  This ALSO applies to you, the hunter.  Your job is to find the easiest to kill thing on the field or the thing healing, and wipe them out.  No healing equals dead melee.  Your pet assisting equals dead melee.  Also, keep mend pet up at all times.  Use your talents.  This applies mainly to scatter shot, silencing shot, chimera shot ((Side note, KEEP STINGS ON THINGS.  Scorpid for melee&#039;ers, serpent or viper for everything else.))  explosive shot, aimed shot, BEASTIAL WRATH,  beastial wrath, intmidation.  Whatever your forte is, USE IT.    Everytime the cooldown is up on some, or at important times ((Healers or casters for silencing and intimidation, intmidation if you need breathing room)).  Beast masters, we can have a talented beastial wrath of just over a minute cooldown now.  Use it, love it.  These are the basics.

For melee...run away.  Concussive, and run.  Wing clip, and run.  Sick your pet on it, and keep moving.  Used to, this was easy.  Beyond the initial charge or intercept from a warrior, you were home free.  This is not so easy anymore, and I&#039;ma tell you why, and why hunters are having such a !@#$ed hard time in PvP.  Every class, its mother, and the family dog have ways out of concussive and wing clip now.  Fury warriors have heroic inspiration ((Don&#039;t think thats the talent name, but you get the point)) which breaks ALL snares and resets the cooldown on intercept.  Arms has blade storm, which ALSO breaks CC.  Protection has in-battle charge.  Retri&#039;s have hammer of justice, blessing of freedom, and pursuit of justice. Protection paladins have avengers shield and blessing of freedom.  Shaman have frost shock.  Feral druids have feral charge and their own snare from mangle and shred now, and feral swiftness works everywhere.  Death knights..... har har har.  Death grip and chains of ice, and chains of ice has no cooldown aside from requiring one frost rune every ten seconds.

In short, kiting is now nearly impossible in PvP, which is a huge, HUGE problem.  Hunters have no other way of dealing with melee.  None.  Zip.  Zero.  Even if we could fire zero-range shots, that wouldn&#039;t aleviate our problems.  Disengage was and is a nice addition, but with all the counter counters, it barely counts as a stall now.  I can&#039;t see to many ways to fix this, either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ghanur, being in a number 1 raiding guild doesn&#8217;t really mean much.  This blog isn&#8217;t about skill.  It isn&#8217;t about the DPS you can put out.  It isn&#8217;t even about skill.  Its about having a love of pets, and the hunter class in general.  Your voice does mean something here, I prommise.</p>
<p>Hunter PvP has never been easy.  Doable, but not easy.  So much more complicated then other classes PvP, even casters.  That being said, anything caster is screwed from the get go against hunters.  Just remember to keep them at range with disengage and you&#8217;ll be fine if your not under geared compared to them.  </p>
<p>But thats never been the problem, eh?  The problem was the OTHER six melee capable classes.  And still is.  The problem is, there are more and more counters to our counters for them.  The basics go like this:  Fire from a protected, non-obvious position.  I don&#8217;t mean stand up on top of a cliff and fire down.  If you can manage to be out of intercept or death grip range, go for it.  Otherwise your just begging to be singled out.  Stay with as many people you can find.  Seriously.  Don&#8217;t try to go solo as a hunter in PvP.  USE YOUR PET.  I am going to say that again, because of the sheer number of people I see with their pets on passive.  Sometimes exotic pets on passive.  USE YOUR PET.  Find a healer, and ctrl 1 or whatever your pet attack is them.  No healer, find the next squishiest thing.  This ALSO applies to you, the hunter.  Your job is to find the easiest to kill thing on the field or the thing healing, and wipe them out.  No healing equals dead melee.  Your pet assisting equals dead melee.  Also, keep mend pet up at all times.  Use your talents.  This applies mainly to scatter shot, silencing shot, chimera shot ((Side note, KEEP STINGS ON THINGS.  Scorpid for melee&#8217;ers, serpent or viper for everything else.))  explosive shot, aimed shot, BEASTIAL WRATH,  beastial wrath, intmidation.  Whatever your forte is, USE IT.    Everytime the cooldown is up on some, or at important times ((Healers or casters for silencing and intimidation, intmidation if you need breathing room)).  Beast masters, we can have a talented beastial wrath of just over a minute cooldown now.  Use it, love it.  These are the basics.</p>
<p>For melee&#8230;run away.  Concussive, and run.  Wing clip, and run.  Sick your pet on it, and keep moving.  Used to, this was easy.  Beyond the initial charge or intercept from a warrior, you were home free.  This is not so easy anymore, and I&#8217;ma tell you why, and why hunters are having such a !@#$ed hard time in PvP.  Every class, its mother, and the family dog have ways out of concussive and wing clip now.  Fury warriors have heroic inspiration ((Don&#8217;t think thats the talent name, but you get the point)) which breaks ALL snares and resets the cooldown on intercept.  Arms has blade storm, which ALSO breaks CC.  Protection has in-battle charge.  Retri&#8217;s have hammer of justice, blessing of freedom, and pursuit of justice. Protection paladins have avengers shield and blessing of freedom.  Shaman have frost shock.  Feral druids have feral charge and their own snare from mangle and shred now, and feral swiftness works everywhere.  Death knights&#8230;.. har har har.  Death grip and chains of ice, and chains of ice has no cooldown aside from requiring one frost rune every ten seconds.</p>
<p>In short, kiting is now nearly impossible in PvP, which is a huge, HUGE problem.  Hunters have no other way of dealing with melee.  None.  Zip.  Zero.  Even if we could fire zero-range shots, that wouldn&#8217;t aleviate our problems.  Disengage was and is a nice addition, but with all the counter counters, it barely counts as a stall now.  I can&#8217;t see to many ways to fix this, either.</p>
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		<title>By: Mania</title>
		<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2008/12/09/upcoming-hunter-changes/comment-page-2/#comment-36739</link>
		<dc:creator>Mania</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:13:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maniasarcania.com/?p=2292#comment-36739</guid>
		<description>Palladiamors: We look forward to hearing more when you&#039;re ready!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Palladiamors: We look forward to hearing more when you&#8217;re ready!</p>
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		<title>By: Mania&#8217;s Arcania &#187; PTR 3.0.8: Hunter Patch Notes</title>
		<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2008/12/09/upcoming-hunter-changes/comment-page-2/#comment-36738</link>
		<dc:creator>Mania&#8217;s Arcania &#187; PTR 3.0.8: Hunter Patch Notes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:11:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maniasarcania.com/?p=2292#comment-36738</guid>
		<description>[...] particular, we know that the upcoming hunter changes mentioned by Ghostcrawler the other day should be in this PTR sooner or later.   [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] particular, we know that the upcoming hunter changes mentioned by Ghostcrawler the other day should be in this PTR sooner or later.   [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Palladiamors</title>
		<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2008/12/09/upcoming-hunter-changes/comment-page-2/#comment-36737</link>
		<dc:creator>Palladiamors</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 19:52:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maniasarcania.com/?p=2292#comment-36737</guid>
		<description>Fiction.  My grammar can be really horrible, and as it is my first foray into the novel world I plan on having two seperate editors go over it, then I&#039;ll go back over it to make sure it isn&#039;t altered, and then considering it complete.  One particular character  ((A tribute to my deceased nephew, actually)) causes my spell checker to break out in hives. I apologize for being light on the details at the moment, but I want to get it out the door first, and THEN I&#039;ll let everyone know whats going on, I promise.

Its interesting, in hindsight.  To watch your writing style change.  I guess it was a year ago now, I was a quarter of the way done with my original.  Then one day, while listening to music, I had one of those rather massive ideas that causes your head to hurt, and won&#039;t let you sleep until you put it down.  This was bad considering I was out at a friends at the time.  When I finally managed to get to my computer, I hammered it out what I had before I forgot it.  Thus began the current incarnation of my novel.  Typos, grammar mistakes, and all.  *LAUGHS*  I have no illusions of grandeur on where this might go, but I am honestly enjoying writing it, and I want to tell people an interesting, compelling story.

Wish me luck.  *Grins*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fiction.  My grammar can be really horrible, and as it is my first foray into the novel world I plan on having two seperate editors go over it, then I&#8217;ll go back over it to make sure it isn&#8217;t altered, and then considering it complete.  One particular character  ((A tribute to my deceased nephew, actually)) causes my spell checker to break out in hives. I apologize for being light on the details at the moment, but I want to get it out the door first, and THEN I&#8217;ll let everyone know whats going on, I promise.</p>
<p>Its interesting, in hindsight.  To watch your writing style change.  I guess it was a year ago now, I was a quarter of the way done with my original.  Then one day, while listening to music, I had one of those rather massive ideas that causes your head to hurt, and won&#8217;t let you sleep until you put it down.  This was bad considering I was out at a friends at the time.  When I finally managed to get to my computer, I hammered it out what I had before I forgot it.  Thus began the current incarnation of my novel.  Typos, grammar mistakes, and all.  *LAUGHS*  I have no illusions of grandeur on where this might go, but I am honestly enjoying writing it, and I want to tell people an interesting, compelling story.</p>
<p>Wish me luck.  *Grins*</p>
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		<title>By: Corwyn</title>
		<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2008/12/09/upcoming-hunter-changes/comment-page-2/#comment-36736</link>
		<dc:creator>Corwyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:30:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maniasarcania.com/?p=2292#comment-36736</guid>
		<description>I find it amazing that Blizzard can be surprised about the DPS of a class that they designed.  I mean, they did do the calculations a la Elitist Jerks but without the uncertainty, right?  

Given that they don&#039;t seem to understand that, what confidence should we give them that _these_ changes will fix things (conceding for now, that things need changing).  If you don&#039;t know what you are doing prudence would recommend making simple changes and at most a few at a time.

Also looking a DPS statistics alone would seem to be a one-sided approach.  How about looking a raid composition compared to the composition of active characters?  Are hunters overrepresented in raids?  If not, I would claim there is no problem, regardless of DPS numbers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it amazing that Blizzard can be surprised about the DPS of a class that they designed.  I mean, they did do the calculations a la Elitist Jerks but without the uncertainty, right?  </p>
<p>Given that they don&#8217;t seem to understand that, what confidence should we give them that _these_ changes will fix things (conceding for now, that things need changing).  If you don&#8217;t know what you are doing prudence would recommend making simple changes and at most a few at a time.</p>
<p>Also looking a DPS statistics alone would seem to be a one-sided approach.  How about looking a raid composition compared to the composition of active characters?  Are hunters overrepresented in raids?  If not, I would claim there is no problem, regardless of DPS numbers.</p>
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