RFC: Boars and Gore
RFC stands for “Request For Comments” — which basically means that I need your help (again!). I’m getting a lot of questions about the pros and cons of each pet family and in particular the pet family skills. But there’s no way that I really test all the pet families in every situation myself, so I want to hear about your experiences with them! (And yes, with 32 pet families this could take awhile.)
Today’s RFC: The Boar family and their Gore skill.
Remember way back when Boars were the big thing? Extra health and armor, plus not only a skill that closed with the enemy fast and boosted their threat through the roof but also a decent damage-dealing skill? Boars were almost as popular as cats! Ah, those were the days.
But these days, all Tenacity pets have high health and armor, all Ferocity and Tenacity pets have access to Charge, and every pet in the game has some decent damage-dealing skills (although some are still better than others). And alas, the Boar’s vaunted threat bonus disappeared even before Patch 3.0. So are Boars still worth it? Is Gore worthwhile?
Please, if you’ve had any experience hunting with Boars in a post-Patch 3.0 world, take a moment to comment and let me know what you think. In particular, I’d like to know:
- What are the pros and cons of Boars in general?
- What are the pros and cons of Gore in particular?
- Are Boars particularly good (or bad) for soloing, grouping, raiding, PvP, tanking, damage-dealing, etc?
- What talents do you suggest for Boars? Are there any required talents, or talents you should definitely skip?
- Do you know any clever strategies for hunting with Boars, or are there any particular gotchas to watch out for?
- Would you recommend a Boar?
(These are just guideline questions — you need’t try to address each one in turn. And yes, this post looks a lot like the other RFCs — after all I’m asking the same questions!)
I’m especially looking for input from people who have been hunting with Boars for the past month or so (since Patch 3.0), but even if you haven’t, feel free to throw if your theorycrafting — just let us know whether your advice is based on experience or spreadsheets (or both)!
This post will remain here as a reference for the future, and additionally I’ll try to distill the basics down into a brief summary for use on Petopia.
As always, thanks for your help!
57 Comments
First! (^.^)
Never been a big fan of boars, but I did use them.. I definetly respected them pre 3.0, their Charge skill was amazing. But now they just seem rather ordinary, like hunting with a big pig. Their Gore skill is rather good, but the limitation of using it after charge seems to make it rather obsolete, as your piggy isn’t charging everywhere and everything.
They were definetly more fun pre 3.0, but now they’ve just kinda faded into the background.
Sgt. Thor
Boars doesnt make any sense atm.. Blizz should make Gore work like a stacking bleed wound like scorpid poison.
Boars are dead and gone, it’s a real shame. D=
I actually prefer my boar to my Ferocity pets while questing. The reason is that they hold aggro really well and can handle adds with aplomb. Also, since they aren’t healing themselves (like ferocity pets) the adds aren’t tempted to attack me.
While they probably aren’t as great as gorillas and I wouldn’t take him into a group for DPS, Kevin is still a much valued part of my stable.
When Korzak was a lvl 8 hunter, he saw an orc ride through Razor Hill in full mail armor, a huge bow slung across his back, and a huge golden boar galloping along beside his wolf. That very moment I knew I had to have that pet! It was big and beautiful, and I wanted it.
Long story short, I went on Petopia and found it that it was a Young Goretusk from Westfall (could have gotten the Battle Boar from Mulgore but that’s not as much fun!), and as soon as I finished the taming quests at level 10, I set out for that spot. It was NOT an easy trip, by any means, but I made it there, tamed my Goretusk, named him Goretusk, and he was my main pet all through my whole career, into the Burning Crusade and all.
Now, with charge being available on so many other pets, my beautiful golden boar just naps in the stable all day.
I used a boar as my primary pet while levelling from 60 to 70 in a pre-2.4 environment. The boar was great in that the combination of charge and growl made the boar initially land a high amount of threat (4-5K). Even if my first two or three shots crit, I wouldn’t pull aggro off Hildisvini (my boar).
Blizzard first hit boars with the nerf bat in 2.4, and I never really got him very good at holding aggro since then. They’ve fiddled a bit with threat from boars since, but it didn’t improve until 3.0.2 hit, and even then, it wasn’t great. The new charge doesn’t generate anywhere near the threat that a boar’s charge did, pre-2.4. Boars are now further hampered in that gore is so weak, even when compared to the other tenacity pets, that they’re still second rate tanking pets at best, these days. While I’m finding the gorilla’s AOE tanking abilities, combined with the new volley, to be very handy, even if one preferred single target tanking, I think there are probably better choices than boars, currently.
I did some testing with Hildisvini after 3.0.2 came out, and sadly concluded that he was ready for retirement. We went truffle hunting in Nagrand, one last time, and I released him in a nice patch where he can eat his fill and chase the talbuks around for amusement.
I’ve never had a boar, honestly, but I have noticed that before this patch, you saw tons of baby trolls and orcs running around Org with their very first pet – a black or white boar. And now, I see more scorpids, sometimes even crocolisks! The boar-keepers still run around, but have been cut in numbers – severely.
I briefly tamed one before, but let it go because I didn’t like running around with a huge pig, not realizing its true, aggro-holding inner beauty.
Required Talents: CHARGE. Every boar owner, and not boar owner, knows that. But I have to wonder, can a boar use Gore after INTERVINE? If so, that would prove to be a useful talent…
Oh, and…
Stay AWAY from Improved Cower! (If that’s even a Tenacity talent :P)
Never tried a boar to be honest.. I liked the way they looked, but Bullet the barking wolf and my grimtotem spirit guide have been the only pets for me! Until I level once and hit 74, then I’mma grab a Vargul Blighthound..
..But yea, I’m a wolf person and never really liked the boar abilities much.
n.n;
Seems like the only perks to the piggies now is that they will eat anything: making them incredibly easy to keep happy, which is not really so much a problem any more what with talents and them not ever running away at all any more, and the ones that actually “wear armor”. I know it’s just a graphic and that it adds nothing to the armor bonus, but it DOES look pretty cool. Especially when it’s an RPer and they’ve added it into the backstory of the pet; having started with an unarmored boar of the same color. I’m currently leveling one, just to see how well it holds aggro. I’ve been a little surprised. Even 5 levels below me, it holds aggro on mobs of its own level great! Anything above its level and the dropoff of its abilities hits sharply however. I have to be very careful not to pull aggro from the pet. All these changes… Pets AND Class, it’s making me THINK alot more when I’m playing. Almost as if I have to relearn my class again. Perhaps it would be a good time to level that lowbie hunter alt I have for farming…
My dwarf hunter has a red armored boar from barrens and Moonbear would never hunte with any thing elts. She has two other pets but the boar is her favorite. Now I don’t know WHY its her favorite but little mr. Snuffles fits her well and they take good care of each other.
i used my boar off and on thru lvl 70 where i replaced it with a bear. i have gone back and tried another since 3.02 and found one on one they r pretty good. the biggest benefit i see is that they r a small pet and easy to target around. jasper (my yellow boar) worked well with a pally duo as an off tank and i enjoyed him. the bear doesn’t seem to hold agro any better or worse then the boar but does seem to do more damage. if blizz would give gore a bleed effect or something to make it do better damage after the initial charge, i would trade in my bear and get a new boar
Comparing Gore to Thunderstomp, I just noticed something rather interesting.
At rank 5 obtained at level 64, Thunderstomp does 227-323 base damage, but at rank 6 obtained at level 80, Thunderstomp’s damage goes up just a little to 236-334.
At rank 5 obtained at level 64, Gore does only 57-75 base damage, but at rank 6 obtained at level 80, Gore’s damage jumps to 122-164. After a Charge, Gore’s damage doubles to 244-328, almost as much base damage as from Thunderstomp.
Hmmm. It’s starting to look like Gorillas are intended to be leveling tanks but not necessarily for the end game, when the Boar may come into its own.
OK, lets compare the types of damage that Thunderstomp and Gore do and how they affect non-base damage. Thunderstomp does nature damage. Gore does physical damage. So Thunderstomp gets extra damage from the pet’s spell power, whereas Gore gets its extra damage from the pet’s attack power. Doesn’t the hunter’s attack power have a greater effect on the pet’s attack power than on its spell power? And isn’t the critical damage multiplier for a spell-like attack only 1.5 compared to 2.0 for a physical attack? So won’t Gore benefit more from the hunter’s attack power and have larger crits? Can anyone verify my assumptions here?
Because Thunderstomp does nature damage, it does have the advantage of not having its damage reduced by armor. However because Gore does physical damage, it’s damage is not affected by resistances or immunities to nature damage.
And there’s another advantage to Gore, Charge increases the pet’s melee attack power by 25% for its next attack. Gore would benefit from that, but Thunderstomp would not.
It appears to me that at level 80, boars will compare very well to gorillas for single target threat. Their ability to quickly grab aggro will make them good off-tanks for small-group instances and other situations in which the gorilla’s Thunderstomp would be likely to attract adds and break crowd control.
Gorillas would continue to be good for farming and general questing but would not be the total ubertank they are at lower levels.
Are there any level 80 hunters out there that can test some of this theory-crafting? Any experience with level 80 piggies?
Boars used to be the ‘grotesquely OP pet’ of WoW. They did more damage than anything else, got a speed skill from the getgo (when all other families had to wait until Dash became available at 30-something or might not get it at all), had superior aggro generation to anything else in the game, and ate anything you threw at them.
I hated them.
If you saw a hunter in bad gear with a boar named Boar, you KNEW it was a Chinese gold farmer, because it meant they could EZMode their grinding without monitoring it. (I used to go to UnGoro and killsteal ‘em for fun, btw. Ah, the good old days.)
Now, that despised ‘OMFGOP’ spot has been replaced by gorillas.
Who I also hate. But that’s beside the point.
Currently? I feel they’re mostly on par with the other Tenacity pets (except the damn monkeys). It’s not that boars are nerfed beyond use, it’s that gorillas are out of balance. Do I use one? No. Like crocs, the noise they make (augh squealing) is annoying as all get out, but I’ve never had problems with functionality when I -was- using one. It’s also (imo) a little declassé to hunt with a pig when you could have something with sharp teeth and claws. But, aesthetics aside, they’re a good solid and reliable pet for someone looking to fill their Tenacity slot.
Nachtwulf,
May I politely suggest that you !carefully! look at the snout of a wild boar sometime. Trust me, they have sharp teeth. They might refer to them as tusks, but they are still plenty sharp enough. :)
I can see how the squealing might be off-putting, especially if you’re sensitive to such noises, but I am much more prepared to deal with that than the nonstop irritation of croc growling.
Even though Kevin has lost his place at the top of the “OMG Only Huntards Don’t Have These” list, he is still a favorite pet of mine. I am intriqued by the above theory concerning the scaling of Gore, so that’s one more thing I’ll have to test out when/if I hit 80.
@ boars not having sharp teeth? Dude, I grew up on a hog farm. My grandfather (~200 lbs.) was thrown by a boar who gored him in the thigh with one of his tusks, and was subsequently on crutches for two weeks from the wound. Hogs, domesticated or wild, are quite dangerous, and deserved their reflection as such in game.
Several of my baby hunters have them, since I have some nostalgia for them, and they’re nice, solid pets.
I lvl’d with my boar from 60-70. Didn’t take a different pet until I got to 70 and played with a few new ones there. I still have ‘Boar’, but don’t intend to level him up. He just feels ‘meh’ compared to gorilla / devilsaur etc.
From theory, boars should be one of the great soloing mob to mob to mob pets. Not sure if the figures actually stand up. One of the key reasons for taking Boar into Outlands with me was his love of all foods, which, although much less important, still helps I guess.
(Oh, and to the comment a few up about badly geared hunters with Boar – I would almost certainly fall into that catagory, but am no gold farmer! :)
I’ve kept my albino armored boar from level 25 in the Barrens when I used an invisibility potion to tame & release my way through other boars to get him (all of you that like the black boar with blue armor, you know what I mean =]
Since I’ve pretty much stuck with Beastmaster, I’ve noticed that the boar seems to be great with the added focus and damage, however…I still end up pulling agro right near death, or about halfway if the mob is higher level than the boar by more than one. I have the Cobra Reflexes, which I think help give the boar more chances to hit something difficult, as lower creatures are dead soon enough anyway.
They seem to be a decent tenacity pet still, and while not as good for damage as they used to be, its still fine. I tried a crocolisk for a little while, and while the Bad Attitude ability is useful, they still don’t *seem* to hold agro as well, and take longer to kill the target. The growling does get a bit annoying.
One thing that I’ve noticed getting me agro from a boar, and other pets, is the curing effects of the enhanced Mend Pet ability, which happens more in the tenacity tree, as they don’t heal themselves like ferocity. That cure effect tends to build as much or more threat than the actual heal itself, and because the healing effect is magnified, it can combine to pull the boar (or croc) right off. This is why I love ferocity for single targets, and want to see what I can do to make them better for a few at a time. This is more of how Enhanced Mend Pet seems to build threat-something to be aware of with Tenacity pets especially, and probably Cunning to some degree.
I will be keeping my red-armored albino boar Gullinbursti always though, as I have many fond memories of obtaining and hunting with him, as well as Norse roleplaying backstory. I’m on Kul’Tiras if you ever want to talk shop, and happy to learn more about Hunters, as I’m only 46 at the moment. =D
I had a boar for a bit, just wasn’t for me. Maybe it was because everyone else and their mother had one, maybe it was because I just didn’t think a boar fit my character…whatever the reason, it didn’t stick in my stable at the time.
That said, I can’t say that their was anything bad about them or wrong, it was just a choice I made for looks.
I do find it an interesting game commentary, however, that I am seeing a whole lot less boars running around these days and more gorillas than I ever have (yes, I had one of those too but eh…wasn’t for me either).
@cloudmonkey You are right to assume a hunters ap affects the pets ap more than spell power, but this misses the point. Thunderstomp has the additional moderate threat generated, making it hands down the best threat generation on a single target, and multiple targets.
Unfortunately for our swine friends, they are not better than a gorilla in any of the areas mentioned in mania’s post.
I was a big supporter of boars before the expansion, however after the expansion there are too many options that are more worthwhile. A boar with charge can do a great amount of frontload damage, but what about after that? Then he’s just a regular tenacity pet. Bears can eat everything AND they get a semi-AOE swipe that helps with multiple targets and an increase in damage. Worms are better at single target because of Acid spit, as are turtles because of their ability to negate a severe amount of damage when the going gets tough. Truth be told, I can’t think of a single tenacity pet I wouldn’t take over the boar at this point. The only reason I could think of for taking a boar right now is for the look. They aren’t a bad pet, they just aren’t a better choice than the other tenacity pets. If they ever gave Gore a shorter cooldown or perhaps removed the cooldown altogether and made it a focus dump then I could see it being much more useful. However, as it stands, I’d rather have something else.
ihlos, you’re quite right about the additional threat generated by Thunderstomp. My point was that at level 80, the difference in single target threat might not be nearly as great as the difference most of us are seeing now and that the boar may find its proper role as an off-tank.
I have a gorilla and love using Thunderstomp, Misdirect, and Volley to take out groups fast; however, in group play, Thunderstomp’s AOE damage and threat can cause too many problems with breaking crowd control and picking up adds. For groups, I want a pet that can grab aggro fast without any unintended side-effects. With the significant increase in up-front damage from rank 6 Gore, a level 80 boar might fill that role well.
I tamed a Boar pre-release of BC after every class had their talents redone and the new pet skills ( like Scopid Poison, Shell Shield and Boar Charge, ect. ) were added to encourage Hunters to try different pets. I used my Boar to NO END. I would only swap out for my wolf when I was in an instance. Any other time, be it some Argent Dawn rep grinding or PvP, I had my Boar. By FAR, one of the best tanking pets. My opinion however goes as such. ( This was as BM after the WotLK talents were released by the way when I tested out these out. )
Bears have HUGE amounts of armor, but lack the damage needed to be a solid tanking pet. Swipe is nice for when you get an extra mob you REALLY didn’t want when you sent your pet in.
Gorillas have a nice armor rating, do some darn good damage, and can hold aggro suprisingly well.
Boars also have HUGE amounts of armor, ( my EPL boar had just over 15k armor, could possibly be higher once he hits 80, which was more then my PROT Warrior in full tanking gear sadly. ) have good damage, and do the best, IMHO, at holding aggro if you are running Marksmen or Survival.
Worms having the Sunder Armor DoT spit is awesome, but lack the damage and armor needed to make a good tanking pet.
Those are the only ones I’ve gotten to try out so far. I would also like to note that I had a 41 MM / 20 Survival build when they released the new pet skills.
In short, IMHO once again, Boars ARE a good tanking pet, even if not BM. I still use mine, but have started to use a Scorpid for tanking. Still love using my boar ( named LRVWarthog ( RvB anyone? >.> )) Honestly, try em out, and if you don’t like ‘em, switch to another pet.
Before I start, an observation. Those of you who dumped your boars because they suddenly weren’t uber broken, or the pet of choice anymore? Make me angry. It isn’t all about your pet being the ‘best’. Now, onwards.
Boars, like all tenacity pets, have additional armor, as well as additional stamina over standard pets, leading to an increased survivability. Cons are basically the inability to do as much damage as ferocity or cunning, and not having the ‘utility’ boost of the cunning tree.
In specific, all tenacity pets have the talent ‘blood of the rhino’, which works as a stamina boost as well as an improvement to healing. Intervene, last stand, taunt, and Roar of Sacrifice are all amazing tank and off tank talents. Guard dog is amazing for keeping threat, and keeping your pet happy. Gore is a ten second cooldown damage ability with the multiplier chance, also very nice for helping keep aggro. Cons, we are right back to a lack of damage. Not only that, but in order to take the better tanking or survival talents, you may need to sacrifice some DPS, something the tenacities are already hurting for. Gore’s damage multiplier requires charge to work.
Boars are amazing solo pets, even after their threat nerf. They keep aggro very well on single targets, and are hard to kill. In group play, they suffer a bit due to instance mobs hitting so much harder now. For PvP, all tenacity pets are AMAZING for keeping the hunter alive, which is an issue hunters have problems with in PvP. Roar of sacrfice and intervene in particular help with that.
Talents I would consider nessecary for a boar include all of the stamina and armor buffs, guard dog, and intervene. Definitely try for roar of sacrifice, and maybe even last stand. Taunt can be good for pulling mobs off of squishies. As a personal preference, I tend to take the damage boosting talents, but thats my playstyle. Charge is a must, but boars speed is optional.
Try to pop beastial wrath, an AP increasing trinket, and kill command right before charge goes off for the possiblity of a mega first hit.
In the end, boars are all a matter of preference. Take them if you like single target damage more then multi-target damage, but if you prefer multi-target, go bear or croc. I can not in good conscious recommend a gorilla to anyone who really wants to play the game right now.
As a side note Mania, I tend to only respond to the RFC’s where I have experience, hence my silence in these before now.
@Palladiamors LOL, my friend you crack me up. /wipes tear from wrinkled old face. You are right, if you get rid of a pet because it is not the “in crowd one” or über, then you aren’t a hunter. :)
And Thank You for your insight! It is truly amazing. While I tend to play by gut feelings (unfortunately I lack your ability), I am glad to see others who can analyzed and detail out this game. My main hunter never had one (sorry, boars just didn’t go with me), but my other hunters all do (whether horde or alliance). They all have the lvl 24 boar from Red Ridge Mtns.
For solo one on one mobs, they are great, but for pvp, well, you know my stance on that… I will never really know. : (
I wonder how viable Cloudmonkey’s theories are? They are interesting and I would like to know. Well, good hunting to you all. Still a lvl 70, but I am raking in the gold, lol.It will prob be a couple of months before I can afford LK and start joining you.
And “Happy Thanksgiving” to all. May it be safe and full of good treats for you.
*Smiles* Glad to make you laugh, Sig. I have more or less molded my hunter around my pets, and people looking to have the ‘best’ pets have always bugged me. I have used a wolf problem free since level 12, and even with Lucretia ((Formerly Luposi)) top damage meters, both in PvP and PvE. I am also in a rather unique position, having used every pet family in vanilla WoW and again in TBC. I have actually decided to leave a stable slot open for the purpose of these RFCs, to give my feedback on the pets at hand.
As a disclaimer, however, I have a tendency to make any pet work, even if it shouldn’t. I will make a note of this in the RFC if I come across them, as well as noting any major flaws in the pet family itself. Unfortunately the bare bones of most of the pro’s and con’s will remain the same among family types, but I will try to note the individual differences in pets. That will stem mainly from family abilities, but some will no doubt require a different handling. I will note right now though that every pet family seems to be perfectly usable in a wide variety of situations, with only the tenacity pets really taking a forefront for any one area. To sum it up, use what you want, use the pets that make you feel ‘good’. Frankly, I think using a pet that you don’t enjoy just because its the ‘best’ blows a lot of fun out of the game, especially when ((barring current day gorillas)) the differences are so minor.
I don’t know that I would call it ‘ability’ per se, Sigrdrífa. *LAUGHS* I learned everything I know from experience, and unfortunately that school is known as hard knocks. *Grins* I tend to do things, or try things most people either consider crazy or impossible. And, being a hunter, I drag my pets along. Personally, I feel like the only way to get a feel for a pet, or pet family, is to run with it for a while. So most of my observations or opinions in these RFCs will be from personal experience, through a few instance runs, numerous normal quests, and a few solo’d group quests. ((By way of example, the boar I used for this one I solo’d down Harold Lane with, a three man quest.)) I don’t think its ability. I just use the class to as much of its potential as I am capable. Anyone can do it.
Also, I am not trying to anger, or demean anyone using a gorilla. I just hate to see one pet family placed so far above the others. I am also sick of seeing every half rate hunter and their mother running around with one in ez mode. Again, I don’t feel like that is anyone who visits this site, its just something that irks me.
Look, I used a spider from Tirisfal for ages because I loved the look and the reaction of other players. However, I like having pets that can hold aggro and help me level as well. Anyone being a pet snob and getting down on people for using a gorilla or forsaking a boar needs to relax. First of all, it’s a game. Second of all, you sound like the kid who starts to spurn his favorite band once they become popular, because you like being edgy and elitist.
My character’s name has “boar” in it, but i wouldn’t even think of using a boar. Not because they aren’t good or good looking, but because they make me miss my old boar Mahogany, with which i leveled 50-60. I guess the point of this post is to say that skill aside, i grew to love my boar and you may do so as well.
Not a big fan of the Boar right now either. I didn’t use them before the patch but since the patch I started another toon and not all that impressed. The only thing that is remotely cool about a boar is the animations when you are at rest. From what it sounds the Boar like the Cat have been removed from the game as pets. I miss my old Cat as much as some people miss there Boar.
I just wonder: Lets say that you have 80 lvl boar whit higtest rank of Gore, what makes 122 to 164 dmg and causes double damage if used within 6 sec of a Charge. So if we get lucky:
164 x 2 = 328 + 25 % AP from Charge and it will make.. 1312 damage?! Oh dear that is.. Heavy. o__O And guess what happens when THAT crits?
Hmm.. What do you think? Is my calculation right?
Dont like boars :) their sound alone… brrr…
Palladiamors, those are some good posts.
Especially agreed with you on dumping a pet because it’s no longer ‘the in thing’. It annoys me a bit as well, but in the interests of tolerance and not telling other people how to play the game, I’ll let it be.
As far as gorillas go, I refuse to get one. Mainly because they’re getting thrown around so much right now I’m sick of it. NO pet should be the one and only choice. Currently gorillas are a game imbalance. An imbalance isn’t only when something is too powerful or making the game too easy, it’s also when something becomes THE ONLY option, making other options pointless.
I’ve had my boar since L10. I actually knew what pet I wanted before I created my hunter. I simply like boars for the coolness factor and will keep Hammerstein whether he’s popular with the in crowd or not.
Having to analyze boars purely from a numbers perspective though, I have to say they leave a lot to be desired. They appear to be average in every respect right now. I run with a bear as well which I got to try out grinding multiple mobs, the boar definitely dies less and seems to hold aggro slightly better on single targets. The bear’s swipe is nothing much to get excited about though and appears to barely hold enough aggro to counter ‘mend pet’.
Right now I think Blizzard needs to give hunters another round of tweaks. Our PvP abilities currently are rather pathetic, however I’ll still content myself playing a fairly fun class until they do get around to fixing some glaring issues.
Pets as a whole need changes. The legendary gorilla needs a smack with the nerf bat, more in ability than stats I feel. Other pets need a boost in utility and I’m hoping boars will get something to make them at least stand out above other pets in some aspect.
Personally right now I feel the only reason anybody would run with a boar is because they like the idea or the look. Any actual game advantage is negligible enough for it not to matter.
Regardless, you’ll still see me in Northrend with Hammerstein my boar in tow.
@Palliamors – some valid points
Boars are still very good single target tanks. I still have my plagueboar in my stable but it couldnt cut it for multiple aggro with the boost in hunter power from 71+
The Gore ability is a wasted family skill as it only works after charge. There are more useful tenacity pet abilities.
@Cloudmonkey – I am pretty sure I read they changed the coefficient so Thunderstomp worked on physical damage thus was mitigated more by armour (but cant cite a reference)
@Gundersson – Its not that Gorillas are overbalanced its that other tenacity pets are underbalanced. A good tenacity pet really needs an aoe threat generation to make it viable for tanking (especially with the plethora of Aoe damage abilities classes are now using).
Basically this is the key. For multiple mob tanking in levelling and instances you need AOE threat generation. Only a Gorilla has this as a true ability and hence it is the pet of choice for many people who want this role. Personally I think they should add this ability to the Tenacity tree to balance all tenacity pets. They could lower the damage of the Thunderstomp or replace it entirely in view of giving all Tenacity pets an AOE threat ability.
I have had Daisy pig since Pre-B.C. When I created Hawkeyee, I knew that my pet would be a black armored RFK boar and Daisy was born. We levelled together, saw all end game Pre-BC and a fair chunk of it in BC as well.
I have found recently that she is having difficulty holding aggro on multiple mobs, which is most frustrating as that is what we used to excel at.
So Daisy will take a snooze for awhile and I will play with a gorilla. I am sure that Daisy will not be in retirement forever, cause there is just something about hearing that *Squeel* when she runs in to a boss.
I used a boar before 3.0 – was good for positioning mobs on inc.
I stopped using boars before 3.0 and switched to a scorpid because of the lower profile (easier to target mobs behind the pet).
At the moment I use a Gorilladin for soloing, nothing beats aggro on Thunderstomp for multiple mobs – I’d like to see another pet for this kind of job (screech was changed to do no AE aggro anymore).
LOL, you live on here don’t you Palla :) But, seriously, thank you and everyone else all for the wonderful insight in the mechanics of our class, especially our pets.
My boar is named “MissMeggie” after my last ferret (Miss Omega) who is still with me. She is not in bad shape for a 7 year old fert. Take care all.
Korzak, did you even read what I said? Seriously? For one buddy, I don’t look down on anyone. Period. I may get angry or aggrivated, but those are totally different then looking down on some one. No, I said that if your using a pet just because its ‘the best’ and then dumping it when it is no longer broken that your being more then a little shallow. You said it yourself, its a game. Your meant to have fun with it, not stress over whats better then whatever else. Use what you enjoy using, not the current ‘best’ pet. And if whatever is currently the best just happens to be what you like, then hey, kudos to you. You very obviously don’t know me very well if you think I am being edgy or elitist. I am, and never have been either. I do believe in actually USING your brain to play though, and in doing so ANY, and I mean ANY and ALL pets are perfectly viable. Got it? Good. Now chill.
*Takes a deep breath* Apologies for the outburst, and for actually rounding some one out in specific, but…grrrr. Anyway, Drina has a very valid point, and one that Blizzard may need to address. Right now, as far as being a viable tank goes, the gorillas are the only ones that have a chance of being viable. They are the only tenacity with a REAL AoE damaging attack/aggro garnering ability. The problem is, it is to much. They either need to increase the cooldown, or decrease the damage by a large margin to even begin to balance it out. The other direction, as Drina suggested, would be to buff the other tenacity with a mild AoE aggro of their own. I like option two better, but then again, who wouldn’t?
Heh, I wouldn’t say that I live on here, Sig. I am an author, so I spend a lot of my time on my computer. Which leads to a lot of time NOT writing. *LAUGHS*
I have never used a pet because it is the best , however i have almost always used a boar at least at low level as it was the fastest of them all and now will still use one as they eat anything and that is still the first thing i think of , as for their damage now i i can hardly see any difference in damage to any pet that’s classed the same as a boar so i will still use one at times.
For me the pet is a part of a hunter so cats and boars i will always have even though i now have a warp stalker and a silithid and a gorilla , dam i need more slots as i still want a rhino , perhaps i had better get one of my alts to 70 so i can have one ?
Matilda the armoured blue boar is resting in the stables. Alas my favourite pets, Kiyo the blue windserpent and Matilda are both eclipsed by some of the new abilities.
I am mainly using the white/blue gorilla, which I liked and (before I ran out of stable slots pre-WotLK) previously had tamed. Trying to keep Kiyo up to level as well but failing dismally, so chances are I won’t be getting Matilda out soon.
I’d like to see bears’ swipe buffed to hit unlimited targets, per the Druid ability of the same name, and some more viable pet AoE abilies. The other alternative would be to move Thunderstomp into the Tenacity talent tree.
Corbetti
I love my boar, he’s still in my stable, but truth be told, since 3.0 he’s been reduced to generic pet 001, Imo. As a tank it is pretty well impossible for him to fulfil his role because his agro is so pitiful he can’t keep agro on himself enough to use any extra armor and hp he might have. I have a ravager as well and the ravager does a better job of holding agro than the boar, and not so terrible a job tanking, as it’s dps is high enough to translate into agro and he does enough over the boar to help the mobs die quicker. Unless they tweak the boar mine is unlikely to leave the stable.
The Gorilla is the new boar. All hail the Gorilla
Boars > Cats
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj0jo-XLzHQ
Something to keep in mind is that a pet will never be more then five levels below you now, so it isn’t as important to keep them leveled as you level.
Something is becoming more and more apparent, and it is bugging me. AoE damage is becoming a much, much larger factor in general in Blizzards design. Rogues were given an AoE, and now its been buffed, cat form is being given swipe, and everyone with a lesser AoE is having it buffed up as well. All tanks are now encouraged towawrds AoE tanking as well. When looking at it in that light, the only pet holding up is the gorilla, and that bothers me. People shouldn’t feel like they NEED to have a certain pet to keep up, though I realize that has always been the case.
Oh, and before I forget, all RFCs will NOT take into consideration a lack of AoE. I don’t even consider that to be part of the formula for pets right now, and until it is made so by base line actions, I will not consider it to be so. This is a personal opinion, or fallacy if you prefer. It will definitely never be the make or break.
Ciao!
The good:
They have nice idle animations, they eat about everything, their gore-skill is one of the more useful pet-skills, and there are many different kinds of boards (black, grey, brown, orange, armored, undead-looking).
The bad:
They’re simply nothing very flashy or special.
Usually on these RFC’s I like to make a summary of what I’ve read…just to sort out my own thoughts, but its seems that Palladiamors pretty much got it all summed up, even with a nice Talent Tree layout (ttl). Good job!
RFC is more geared towards informing hunters about the individual specified pets, so that we can know more about them at a quick glance. I think though some of these posts are getting off topic. These RFC’s arent really for compare/contrast, they are for info on the Specified pet.
please, save “Gorilla” info for when Mania gets to “RFC-Gorillas and Thunderstomp”
Makoes – I can understand the point you are trying to make but you cant have a such as topic if you cant use it in context. I could say I am a millionaire and if I meant in UK pounds I would be happy, but if I meant Italian Lira then it would be at best the equivalent of a months salary. So you have to compare/contrast to actually give an informed decision on how the abilities and roles work.
First and foremost, I see a lot of people talking about dumping out-of-style pets and only taking the popular ones. I have to agree with everyone who was angered at the people who play like that, even though I’m something of a hypocrite. My preferred playing style has always been to have pets with scales or horns. Windserpent, Raptor, and Ravager; those were my favorites in BC when I started, which was useful for raiding, since those were also some of the top dps. Now, I hate cats; never tamed one because I simply didn’t want one. I’m BM and have a Devilsaur which I use religiously, but only because it’s the epitome of the “Scales and Horns” criteria I so enjoy playing with.
Now, I did tame a pig once a long time ago, but only after I had hit 70 and was looking around for a change of pace. I was impatient, and at that level, all I could tame that was of reasonable level was the undead one in EPL, even though I really wanted an armored one, so that kinda hurt pigs in my eyes for a long time. With the new Tenacity set of pets, I initially wanted a Rhino because it was exotic, but after hearing so many rave reviews, I tamed a black gorilla at 76, and honestly, I love it. I’ve been able to reliably handle a lot of 3- and 5-man quests in Northrend with him alongside me. With the new Volley, I’ve been able to clear whole groups of level 80 mobs with ease. Of course, soon as those quests are done with, it goes right back into the stable so I can get my devilsaur, and until I find the time to tame Loque’nahak, there’s really not going to be much else in my stables.
Comparitively speaking, I’m not sure how the boar can properly stand up, simply because I don’t use them, and use tenacity pets so rarely anyway. Tenacity pets, as a whole, are designed to get aggro, hold it, and take a beating better than any other pet. In fact, one thing I love about Tenacity pets is, fully-buffed, my pet can actually become a viable off-tank in instances, with around 25k health and near 20k armor. Looking at it from a theoretical standpoint, Gore makes boars pretty poor in terms of holding aggro by comparison; Gorillas do AoE and additional threat, Crocs attack back every time they’re attacked, Bears can hit multiple targets, and all of these can be used consistently and do the same amount of damage/threat each time. Gore usually does double damage/threat only once in a fight, and if you’re soloing group quests, I’ve had fights last for close to 5 minutes, which means a boar would be doing significantly less threat overall than most other tenacity pets.
However, it all comes down to choice. Unfortunately, the PvP hunter and the Raiding Hunter will usually cling to only what will be the most useful to them. I’ll let you know this, though; in the spirit of individuality, I’m gonna try my hardest to tame King Krush, so I stop looking like every other stinking BM hunter on my server with a big, black dino stomping beside him.
Thank you, Makoes. One thing you have to keep in mind, though, is that I am more or less lenient. I like to hear other opinions on pets, and while I may not always agree, discussion can be fun too. *Laughs* Just…. politely. That is all I ask. If your going to call me out, or disagree, just do it politely. I tend to state the basic facts, and some opinions, and I think it is important, especially in these RFCs for there to be all sorts of opinions, both good and bad. It helps to give a broader view of the pet family in question.
My alt hunter(which is the one I play mostly atm) has had boars from the very beginning, and the reasons for keeping with them are many and obscure.
1) My character has become a pig kind-of-girl, or rather, a funky punker kind of girl. She may have to get a silithid reaver on the off-side for that very same reason…
2) They eat everything, as Orya said. Small thing? I think not, I can uncritically sell everything but the stack of fish I keep for the purpose, which I can replenish anywhere with water.
3) Boars are still cool, not the most uberpowered, but not underpowered either. As such, no reason to change.
4) They are easy to play…
This I mean very seriously, some of the pet abilities I see, you have to pop at the right time, or take off in certain situations, etc. Boars… well, just let them charge in there and do their thing :P True, gore is only really effective right after charge, but then again, it is pretty much only used there, when the energy bar is full.
So, for hunters like me, who has never really gotten the finer points of timing, it’s perfect.
What are the pros and cons of Boars in general?
What are the pros and cons of Gore in particular?
Are Boars particularly good (or bad) for soloing, grouping, raiding, PvP, tanking, damage-dealing, etc?
What talents do you suggest for Boars? Are there any required talents, or talents you should definitely skip?
Do you know any clever strategies for hunting with Boars, or are there any particular gotchas to watch out for?
Would you recommend a Boar?
This is the information I would like to see at a quick glance. instead I see alot of “this pet isn as good as a gorilla”….gee thats nice, when I want to know about gorillas I’ll go to the gorilla RFC….THAT is my beef.
All I am asking is that we keep the posts about the topic’d pet. thx.
Makoes if you think this will give you an informed choice then here are your answers.
What are the pros and cons of Boars in general? It is a tenacity pet so can tank. It is a single target tank so cant hold multiple mob aggro well.
What are the pros and cons of Gore in particular? Gore does double damage on charge. Gore doesnt do any extra damage or aggro after the first attack.
Are Boars particularly good (or bad) for soloing, grouping, raiding, PvP, tanking, damage-dealing, etc? No, No, No, No, No, No
What talents do you suggest for Boars? Are there any required talents, or talents you should definitely skip? As with all tenacity – Charge, Growl, Blood of the Rhino, Grace of the Mantis, Barding
Do you know any clever strategies for hunting with Boars, or are there any particular gotchas to watch out for? No
Would you recommend a Boar? No
So basically the answer is no but without knowing the context of how it compares to other pets it doesnt really give you an accurate picture.
Possibly boars are ok, i personally think, and many other hunters i know, that gorillas are THE best solo pets, thunderstomp is an awesome AoE threat generating move that can hold aggro from several mobs at once very well, just lure a large group of enemies by running round then sick em! Thunderstomp gets them all on your pet then volley em down, i recommend gorillas and when you do i hope you will spread the word around about how good they are to all non believers and all those annoying people who use core hounds and other ferocity pets to solo.
@ Boarwood – if you abandoned your pet, you can get him restored by a GM, I got one of my beloved pets back. :)
@drina – they did change the coefficient so Thunderstomp worked on physical damage, BUT that turned out to be a bug which has been fixed as of the last patch 3.03. Thunderstomp is now treated as nature damage. Check the latest patch notes.
@Kaei
Dude, I think everyone pretty much GETS that Gorillas are the be all and end all of tanking right now.
Generally if somebody is NOT using a Gorilla, then it’s probably because they don’t want to be exactly the same as the other 5 thousand huntards out there with their cookie cutter ‘BEST’ builds.
If there is a ‘best’ anything in the game I will generally try to find an alternative to it that is also effective. So leave the guy with his corehound or his ferocity pet in solo. Maybe he just enjoys playing with that particular pet?
Really REALLY sick of the ‘get a monkey like everyone else’ brigade.
I discarded my monkey for a beautiful rhino i’m i no longer considered a hunter=O
Well to jump into a flury of fun I have a Boar (the black & blue armored one from RFD)and will use him on occasion. Pre BC and WoLK I used my boar a lot!! Now I have adopted a gorilla because I wish to grind thru the quests fast and SAFE and the gorilla accomplishes that the best for me. I have a raptor and ravenger but one must go since I plan on getting an exotic pet soon (2 talent points away). The gorilla holds the multi-adds in questing the best. Better than my Boar and my Bear (the rare spawn outside of IF). Yes my stable slots are full and we need more (lol) but not at 500g for the next one..150g was crazy enough. But sad to say the Gorilla is tops for now for multi-adds crown control while I level up into the 70′s.
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