Feedback on Pet Skills + Incoming Talent Changes
I edited this into the previous post on the topic, but this news really deserves its own post.
Yesterday Ghostcrawler responded to the feedback thread she started on pet talents with a list of changes that will be in upcoming builds, based directly on our feedback. In addition, she is now seeking feedback on pet skills, especially pet family skills, in the same thread. So if you are in beta and you haven’t already given your feedback, head on over there now!
Here are some changes you’ll see next build or so. I may have forgotten some.
– Taunt no longer shares a cooldown with Growl and Cower.
– Avoidance, not Great Resistance, is the prereq for Wolverine Bite.
– We are still trying to rework Heart of the Phoenix to get around the shortcomings.
– Tenacity and Ferocity pets lost their armor multiplier but it was given to all pets at base. The net effect is that Cunning pets won’t be at a stat deficit compared to the other trees.
– Roar of Recovery provides more mana.
– Lick Your Wounds now with faster licking technology.
– Carrion Feeder cooldown dropped to 30. We can’t easily change the range because this spells uses the same tech as the undead racial.
– Focus cost removed from Bullheaded.
– Not directly talent-related, but rather than reworking Prowl, cats got a second damage ability, Rake. It felt odd for them to shift from most desired pet to one of the least desired.As far as who belongs to which tree, those decisions were made largely based on the pet special ability, not what ecologically makes more sense with the tree’s theme. Strong CC or other PvP-useful abilities were generally given the Cunning tree, just because we didn’t also want to see those same pets as the most popular when raiding or soloing. The goal is to have a lot more options about which pet you’re going to bring. With the Cunning stat change and tree rework, hopefully that will include those animals as well.
Rather than start another thread, feel free to talk about any of the pet family abilities (Rake, Web, Poison Spit etc.) as well within this one.
51 Comments
Woot! Gotta love Ghostcrawler!
Also, first ;)
So quick question, are cats getting Prowl+Rake, or just Rake?
Mania, I posted this in the forum earlier this morning.
No one has responded =[
And yes, this means cats will get prowl and rake.
Wow! Rake and prowl, makes cats the only pet with 2 family skills. Just when I was about to reconsider what my “main” dps pet would be. . . they return the usefulness to my kitty.
Thank you so much blizzard.
I dont like how cats get all these ability’s they are playing favorites i personally like the wolves but blizzard wants to spend all their time giving all the cats the glory why dont they try fixing furious howl or giving them another ability
*Rolls his eyes* Tyler, its not a big deal. Prowl is situational at best. And furious howl IS fixed, it now provides a scaling damage bonus to all RAID members within fourty yards. Trust me, it is LOVE. Cats seriously needed something other then prowl, but if they get to keep prowl and get another skill, then I am happy for them, and you should be too.
Im starting to think ghostcrawler and mania is the same person, there both funny, they both like crabs, and there both awesome ^^
I still have no desire to get a cat (just because they are so common on my server), but it’s good to see Blizzard is trying to work with the cat lovers so they don’t feel like they have to dump their favorite pet. As far as the other pet abilities, that’s why Ghostcrawler is asking for feedback. They need to know which abilities are working as intended, and which need to be tweeked. I look forward to seeing what comes out.
Furious Howl IS awesome. And with wolves in line for DPS, they are awesome. However Cats aren’t really getting buffed, they’re just getting a balancing ability. Blizzard doesn’t want to make any pet look bad, they want us to have options. Therefore, it makes sense to have a new ability
I use a cat right now as my ‘raid/dps’ pet, primarily, and I don’t even have Prowl trained on her to save points for more important traits. Prowl is ONLY good, really, if you feel the urge to scout indoors (outdoors, Eagle Eye is safer), or if you’re a flagwatcher in BGs (and you’re a nelf). It really is situational, and honestly, not very useful. Yes, it’s an extra… but… really, it’s not going to be enough of one to make serious folks change their mind. They’ll use cats ’cause they like ‘em, or they won’t.
Given the changes in tank and melee dps, Furious Howl I suspect is likely to be quite in demand. They’ve made the DPS boost scale, -and- they’ve increased the range, so if your instancing group has much melee in it (or you’re using a war/b’artank), I can’t think of anyone that’d argue with having one along. It also means that hunters can plan more for individual utility in 10/25 man content, with someone bringing a carrion bird for the debuff, someone a wolf for the party buff, and then maybe a spider for CC or a bear for offtanking. It lets there be more hunters in a raid with more flexibility instead of just being ‘Yup, i kill stuff, hurr hurr s’all I do yup’.
Agreed with Nachtwulf. Prowl is almost worthless. Who cares how much it damage it added to the first attack? It took the cat forever to get there. Which meant cats were going to be eye candy only. They would have become the dogs of pre wrath. I can count on one dwarven (4 digits) hand the number of times I’ve seen hyena for a pet on live. That would have been the case with cats. This simply gives them what everyother family of pet has, a duration of fight ability. Prowl is worthless once the pet is in combat.
Looks like the Cat’s Prowl is covered already by previous posters, but I just have to comment on this one:
Sorry, you confused dwarves with gnomes – we, dwarves, have the same nimber of digits (all 5) as humans do. It’s the gnomes who have only 4 digits on their hand. ;)
gotta think this too – if we keep camoflauge, ALL pets will be able to prowl and have an ability, it will just make cats redundant to have 2 stealths
Gnomes have 4 fingers per hand? It’s hard to notice when the male gnome’s hand is waving rapidly in front of him while he thrusts his pelvis forwards and backwards.
oh they can give cats 2 abilities but they cant have all talent trees charge and give ferocity pets somthign else.
or they cant give rhinos somthign that dosnt make you have to kill more stuff
btu on the bright side cats get 2 abilities and rhinos and chimeras are the right size for a tauren (got my main copied into beta today)
Gara: We’re definitely not the same person, although I appreciate the thought. (I would have moved Prowl into the talent trees so as to leave cats with the same number of skills as the other pets.)
I have a question… if I do copy my character to a PTR, will it also stay on my regular realm? I really don;t wanan lose my hunter from the regular realm. would like some feedback on this.
Dweezill: Yup, the regular character is still the real character and nothing you do on the PTR will affect it. The PTR character is just a short-term copy that will go away when the PTR ends.
the wolf family ability wording threw me off,
Furious Howl
Increases attack power by [scaled amount] for Party members within 40 yards of the wolf. Lasts 10 sec.
i thought it was going give me ap for 10 secs but its, ap on next hit, lasts 10 secs.
so 1 ap boosted hit every 10 secs and not 10 secs worth of boosted ap =(
@ Dvorkin. Sorry yep, meant gnome(4 fingers), but my hunter is a dwarf, so I was typing without thinking.
@ Dimion. “camoflauge” i’ve been informed must have been an “Alpha” only spell. Because it never existed in Beta from what I’ve heard. (alas I don’t have a beta key yet)
@ Never. if that is the current beta version of “Furious Howl” that does change the demand for wolves in raids. But it is still a boost over the current version simply because of the range. Right now on live, a wolf’s howl only really adds damage to the melee and not the ranged in a party/raid.
To expand the discussion….
I’m a fan of tanking pets . . . specifically gorillas. If taunt and growl are now on seperate CD, then hitting both at the start of a fight should be a nice chunk of instant threat. Although the taunt mechanic may not do much if the pet already has aggro.
One more thing on tenacity pets. . . why did they lose the armor multiplier? I can understand making ferocity and Cunning the same on that one. But shouldn’t a “tanking” pet be a bit better in both health and armor than the other 2 groups?
Tenacity also gets a second armor increasing and health increasing talent, though so far its not made a huge gap or anything. The armor is still fairly close together, which is a tad annoying.
Rudda, camouflage was an early datamined skill, its true, but Blizzard recently, like in the past month or so announced it as an official ability. Since then though, we haven’t really seen or heard anything about it.
That puzzles me too Rudda.
Camoflauge (sp?) is a myth. It was never in alpha or beta ever. It was datamined back in alpha when somone managed to hack an alpha client, and from what i have understood, has been lurking in the code since classic. They mentioned that they -might- implement it in a blue post (discussing trap viability in raids) , but it hasn’t been spoken of since.
Wolves also affect ranged, insofar as they affect hunters. Furious Howl adds a decent attack power buff to your next attack, so it buffs any ability that has attack power. I get pretty good use out of it atm.
I don’t have an omen running atm, but if i understand the taunt mechanic that pets have, it’s useless if the target is already targeting them. The main purpose is for the pet to be able to “threat grab” off of a target that has already ripped aggro.
Actually, a new version of Camouflage was datamined more recently. No official word on it yet, though:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=9336457028&postId=93356282059&sid=2000#3
Camouflage is NOT a myth, they decided to put it in when they trashed bear trap. But since that blue post we haven’t heard jack about it. Soooo, we may end up with something entirely different.
After spending a short time on the PTR I would have to say that I am impressed with Ferocity, but not at all with Cunning. I would really love to see a reduction in Talent cost for Cornered.
I also still refuse to believe that the armor modifier removal is the way to go to balance pets. Why could they not just balance all 3 modifiers to be +8% for Cunning pets to put them middle of the road? They think they all have CC or PvP type abilities but they all do not. They you see some Ferocity pets such as Hyenas with a Snare ability. Core Hounds with an Anti Caster focus dump. Add in Tallstriders with a really nice ability to force misses. The Cunning Tree is not a CC tree. Wind Serpents have no ability to CC what so ever. Dragonhawks, Sporebats, and Serpents also fall into the catagory of no CC or PvP specific skills and they are telling us they did not want the family to be overpowered because they have CC?
If there going to change some of the pet skills, i think they need to change the core hounds reduce casting speed by 50%. They could change it to somthing like a DOT or increse fire damg taken by the target or just anything to help with raids. It’s a ferocity pet not to be used in arena for the reduce casting speed.
The reason people think Camo may still be coming back is this post from Koraa and the fact that hunters still don’t have a level 80 ability in Wrath (we get Kill Shot at 71, Master’s Call at 75).
About time the kitties got some love from the new patch!
Thank you for the info on Camo. I was disapointed that it didn’t show up in the first round of beta. . . but this sounds hopeful.
As far as cats go. . . prowl may not be as useful with the “new” version that has been data-mined, but perhaps it would work like a NE rogue where shadowmeld deepens the effect of the stealth.
And I agree cats shouldn’t have 2 family skills even though prowl doesn’t make them OP in any way. (atleast imo) But it does make them unbalanced with the rest. Put prowl as a talent like charge and dash.
Nissi:
They didn’t just remove the modifier. Bascially they increased the base amount of armor on all pets to the approximate value of the highest previous modifier. Nothing -should- have lost armor, rather everything should have the same higher armor. Instead of one class having an increase over base, they just made base higher and made em all the same.
If they managed to “normalize” base stat modifiers of pets in three trees, then what’s the difference (and the significance) of three trees? I would suggest to give diffenert tree a different talent content:
For example,
Great stamina in Tenacity tree may give more value as 5%/10%/15% (other two trees as 4%/8%/12%)
Natural armor in Tenacity tree may be 10%/20% (original 5%/10%)
Spiked collar in Ferocity tree may be more as 4%/8%/12% (original 3%/6%/9%)
Dash/Dive speed increase in Cunning tree may be 100% (Ferocity tree remains 80%, and Tenacity tree has lost it)
By this way, all three trees will have different advantage and disadvatage. Thus their meanings and significance exist.
Forgive me if there is misspelling and bad grammar. I am not in beta-test. I’d wish someone in beta agree with me and help me feedback.
Tallstrider’s Dust Cloud should go back to being a Hit % decrease. I’d be fine if it was nerfed down to a 5% reduction from its original form of 30% (that doesn’t stack with Scorpid Sting, mostly because I’m too lazy to apply scorpid sting myself). Although I can see where this could be a bad thing if the debuff draws aggro on the multiple targets it hits. Wish I could hear some feedback about that.
Dust Cloud as it currently stands is just too questionable between its long cooldown and the mysterious question of its effectiveness on bosses (and the aggro/threat thing).
Doubt Blizz will go this way though (back to Hit % reduction), which means tragedy for my Elder Plainstrider LilBuddy :( (Took him from level 9 to 70, hardcore Tallstrider leveling all the way)
I see some players with both Devilsaurs and core hounds. I hate how Ferocity pets “die” when you mount (and stuff). I hate the long cooldown. I put in a big complaint there. My Devilsaur has “wings”. lol It’s from like a “Pally” buff of the “Separation Anxiety”. And I hate how bad they shrunk Devilsaurs.
Devilsaurs grow as they fight, Kristy, from their ferocious bite. Not into the gigundus proportions of before, but still fairly large.
now, since cats are graced with 2 skills, do, warpstalkers get the same treatment?
I think some pet can get non-dmg spells
Cats are getting one unique skill and one skill that, as far as rumors and data-mined scources go, overlaps, overall reducing its effectiveness. As it stands prowl is more of a novelty ability for most hunters, with usage limited to the occasional first strike damage increase in PvE, or the nasty surprise attacks in PvP. But I do have to admit I would love to see all pet families get two abilities.
I’m glad that I wont have to abandon my Bengal tiger, whom I leveled with by my side to 70. I have taught him prowl just for the surprise factor. You cant kill what you cant see. Also does anyone know what the skill Rake actually does? Is it a stacking bleed effect like the tigers have in the barrens?
I’m still not happy that my hot-rod red Wind Serpent will no longer have an instant cast w/o cool-down. But there plenty of other pets out there now so I’ll have fun testing them out. Most of all I’m glad I am no longer restricted to raiding with one pet and pvping with one pet. It’s great for hunters in a mmo game to finally have choices that wont decrease your personal performance.
“Yup, i kill stuff, hurr hurr s’all I do yup” so very true of BC :)
Side note… pets need more base hp and %hit. perhaps ability’s you don’t need to go into the BM talent tree. Even then I’m spec-ed BM right now and my pet still dies too often. perhaps buff up improved mend pet so I can heal my pet more effectively, healers still don’t get how much a pet is to a hunters performance.
WOTLK looks very promising in the hunters eyes.
I almost for got,
WOOT finally a knock-back for hunters :) Stampede “knocking them back 15 yards”, oh the possibilities. Que evil laugh >:3
“Lick Your Wounds now with faster licking technology”
…wow, that sounds dirty. And we thought there were too many fem elf hunters already…
Wow did they shrink Devilsaurs. They need to pick a happy medium because that’s pretty small.
Love what they did with orc females, no more waddling yay. I can finally play the hunter that does the most damage without shame! lol
Love the new things we get to tame, how much fun could this patch and expansion be for hunters?
Now if they will just not nerf us to oblivion I won’t have to keep proving I’m not a huntard all the time.
I’m with hantindash I’m so happy my white tiger will still be a viable raid pet. I’d sure miss Sugar if she wasn’t there.
Is it just me or are moths doing nice damage?
The biggest yay for me is about tallstriders. They’re gonna do the same amount of damage as, say, cats! Heck, if cats didn’t get Rake, they would be even better!
On a complete random note, have anyone noticed, that if you run around with a rare/unusual pet, other hunters with more.. common.. pets will always comment on how much your pet sucks?
I s’pose they’re jealous :P
Crabs, tallstriders & sporebat are rarerest pets in WoW. But I need only El Pollo Grande http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?npc=659 ! if I tame Pollo, I name it Chickenstrider
I tamed both Shy-Rotam and Humar when I was 70 (and then levelled them both up, Humar to 70 was not so much fun), glad they have given cats something other than prowl so I can keep them both.
However I see a rhino for PvP and possibly tanking (Stampede has got to be fun in somewhere like EOTS at the flag, everyone goes flying off the World), and a Devilsaur in my future…
How special is Rake going to be? I have both claw and bit on my cat right now, and its kind of a waste I feel. If rake isn’t that flashy, why not buff prowl to have some sort of Vanish component?
I was curious about that too Xota. Its a fact that cats do more damage with only claw and not bite. So are the damage dealing special abilities actually boosting or hurting the pet’s overall dps?
My guess is it would vary by family of course. But how much? Obviously something with a long CD wouldn’t affect it that much one way or the other. But something that steals focus on a short CD like the live version of “bite” actually lowers the cat’s dps.
I suppose some of them may be higher dps, if the family ability is left “on” and the focus dump (Bite/smack/claw) is turned “off”.
Those kind of numbers are something that needs looked at. Ideally I would think Blizzard should want the “damage” skills to actually add dps in addition to the focus dump. That way they can make longer/shorter CD’s to adjust the abilities so they don’t become focus hogs that don’t actually help the pet’s dps.
And not all pets need this looked at because some are more CC or Utility skills than straight up dmg skills.
So it won’t be a waste for me to jump on the cat bandwagon afterall, that’s nice to know. ;)
I imagine “Rake” will be a scaled down version of the Kitty Druid ability. Would be nice if it stacked, though… That would be fun. :)
I’d like to bring up a point I didn’t notice anyone else mention… I use a warp stalker often, and warp is fairly well as circumstantial a skill as prowl, in that its really only good once per fight to get it started. The skill has no use after the fight is under way. So if cats get an extra skill, what about warp stalkers… but then if we add in that I’m sure MANY hunters would want just about every pet to get some sort of extra little something. The more I think about it, the more I like Manias idea of putting the skill into the talent tree.
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