Beta Testers: Ghostcrawler Needs You!
Ghostcrawler has posted a thread in the WotLK Beta Hunter forum looking for feedback on pet talents:
We need to finalize the pet talents pretty soon, so I wanted to created a thread that focused on their discussion. There are already some good posts on the topic, but they are mixed in with threads on various aspects of hunters.
So please give the pet talents some love here.
Focus on specific talents, and on how the trees are put together. Please don’t use this particular thread to discuss more global pet issues (like feeding, leveling or PvP burstability) or pet stats in general.
So if you are in the beta and you have anything to say about pet talents, please get over there and give feedback!
[edit] Now that’s service! Ghostcrawler has responded to the feedback thread with a list of changes they will be making based directly on our feedback:
Here are some changes you’ll see next build or so. I may have forgotten some.
– Taunt no longer shares a cooldown with Growl and Cower.
– Avoidance, not Great Resistance, is the prereq for Wolverine Bite.
– We are still trying to rework Heart of the Phoenix to get around the shortcomings.
– Tenacity and Ferocity pets lost their armor multiplier but it was given to all pets at base. The net effect is that Cunning pets won’t be at a stat deficit compared to the other trees.
– Roar of Recovery provides more mana.
– Lick Your Wounds now with faster licking technology.
– Carrion Feeder cooldown dropped to 30. We can’t easily change the range because this spells uses the same tech as the undead racial.
– Focus cost removed from Bullheaded.
– Not directly talent-related, but rather than reworking Prowl, cats got a second damage ability, Rake. It felt odd for them to shift from most desired pet to one of the least desired.As far as who belongs to which tree, those decisions were made largely based on the pet special ability, not what ecologically makes more sense with the tree’s theme. Strong CC or other PvP-useful abilities were generally given the Cunning tree, just because we didn’t also want to see those same pets as the most popular when raiding or soloing. The goal is to have a lot more options about which pet you’re going to bring. With the Cunning stat change and tree rework, hopefully that will include those animals as well.
Rather than start another thread, feel free to talk about any of the pet family abilities (Rake, Web, Poison Spit etc.) as well within this one.
Very nice! And since GC has opened the thread to feedback on pet family skills, you should definitely head back with more feedback now!
(Thanks to Gaj for the link!)
57 Comments
Hey this is great giving some not blizz employs a chance to get a say i somthing, heck i’m going to do it!
A little bit off topic, but I Just wanted to point out, that apparently they are constantly adding more Beta Testers. I just got my invite, and am downloading the client now, and waiting for the character copy. So if you signed up for the beta test, and have not gotten an invite, do not loose hope!
I’d test if I had a beta key XD
I got my beta key at about 11pm last night. I went in and put in a ticket to a gm to make sure it was real (( at one point it asks for your account name and password, which made me jumpy))
About an hour later I got in touch with a GM and started the down load… at… about Midnight… It ran untill 9am this morning. (( and yes I have fast cable at 10 meg))… I staid up till about 6 am so I was asleep. got up at 11 and went to install. It then started on the patches…. It’s now 20 till 6pm. I’m on the second patch with an estimated hour to go… so it’s been at least 14 to 15 straight hours of downloading and I”m not even sure if this one will be the last patch. I hope it is, but even then, the Char copy is saying ’3 days’ and the premades are saying 2 days (( why it takes 2 days to copy a char they have….. for multible copies is beyond me))
So in short it’ll be 15 to 16 hour MINIMUM before I even have a chance to start up the game and see the log on screen. I’m guessing this is due to alot of people getting Beta invites AND a new patch going live last night so those already in beta are DL that as they log on and stuff… but if it takes 15 to 20 hours on release day to get this thing going, Blizzard is going to get lynched. It’s CRAZY.
That being said I’m excited to actually get in there (( today or… in 3 days.. whatever)) and get to playing. I fully plan on testing the new super-nerfed powers and putting in my 2 cents.
I left my 2 cents on the site, and it seems the are listening about tenacity pets and pets in general when it comes to hp/armor levels. Lets hope they make teh buggers a little tougher, I want to raid off tank! =)
My guild has about 7 beta keys and counting…all warriors, locks, priests and pallies. -_- I needs my key so I can work on my hunter and shammy! (that or one for my gf to test her sub. rogue and make sure they’re actually gonna be PvE viable this time; Sub. is the spec of true ‘rogue’-type talents, they really should be the top rogue spec instead of those Combat warrior-wannabes >_<)
@PepsiJedi
It’s only because you’re having to download the entire expansion (as much as has been implented so far). On release day it’ll be on disk, which is obviously much simpler and quick to install.
Even now if you have to format your computer and you don’t have your original WoW or TBC disks, it’s a similar situation with many hours of downloading everything. If you have the disks, it’s much quicker (though you still need to download the patches, which shouldn’t be an issue at the time of WotLK release).
I just received my beta key, along with my brother and my co-conspirator, both of whom are in my guild.
I think the proposal to give tenacity pets a talent that increases their defense rating is an excellent one–because pets DO block and parry attacks. From doing a bit of testing with Recount, they do both at about 5%, which is the base for most characters. Adding DR would increase pet mitigation from those by quite a bit.
As well as miss chance on pets. IMO, defense rating increasing the chance for the pet to be missed as well as reducing chance to be critically hit makes it stronger than resilience, especially against the melee classes that are a hunter’s bane.
…but looking at the pet stamina scaling thread, resil will make the big difference in PvP, whereas DR will make the big different in PvE, unless they change DR to affect spell hit/spell crit as well, which I doubt.
someone please mention that the cat family ability sucks and will result in almost everyone dropping their cats, not to mention that if hunter stealth gets implimented, it will make Prowl extremely redundant. They need something better and more offensive, like Pounce. Damage and stun or movement reduction, or a bleed. anything but Prowl.
If you would please mention pet size as a major issue. The new 51 point BM talent gives us more pets to select from but most of these new pets are HUGE and will be distractions in instance and raids. The claim is that the meat of the ability is the extra pet training points. I don’t buy it. Four more training points is a minimal upgrade for the pet – MINIMAL. I have played with the trees and I fail to see any advantage to taking the 51 point talent other then for cosmetic reasons.
Are there any dedicated BM hunters in the beta? Why isn’t anyone raising this question? The 51 point BM talent is weaksauce compared to what other classes are getting if, as stated, the exotic pets are no stronger then normal pets. Why didn’t anyone ask why the extra training points were lowered from 5 to 4? Seriously they nerfed the BM 51 point talent and no one even bothers to ask why?
I wish I were in beta this is frustrating.
Xanar: Where did you read that the 5 point changed to 4 points for the BM 51 point talent? I honestly haven’t seen that yet so I’m curious. Yes, BM talent is a mixture of the cosmetic, but for those who are well into the BM spec, having 4 extra pet talent points is still good. It’s still extra points to use on your pet. I don’t see that as being “weaksauce”. To me, the MM 51 point is the weaker one, in comparison to the BM and Surv.
Look at the updated talent trees. Its been 4 extra points now for days.
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?hunter=
I say its weaksauce because after playing with the pet talent tree tool at WoWHead I fail to see huge gains in pet viability from 4 extra talent points. If you can come up with a pet build that is a 51 point talent worthy improvement over the default build please post it because i’m not seeing it. This is our 51 point talent – the spec defining ability of the next 2 years – and if all we get is a minivan sized rhino with a few more HPs and armor then the defalt scorpid tank pet (for example) then I, for one, will be a very sad BM hunter.
Xanar, I just can’t agree with you on size. If you don’t like your pets size, dismiss it. I don’t see what the big deal with it is. I have a healer, a DPSer, and a tank at end game and I never have any problems with large or flappy pets at current.
Five points was pretty good, for some reason four ends up being a pretty large loss. But I totally have to agree, 51 points for some slightly flavored or slightly more powerful exotic pet abilities is a bit bogus. The exotics themselves need to have at least 5% more stats on average then normal pets, with that maybe even going as high as 10%.
Hehe, I understand people have different feelings about pet size.
I use a Bat currently and its huge – over time I have adjusted and I like it. However, I swap to a ravager or cat for instances and raids because it does get cumbersome inside.
I think the best solution is for Blizz to give us a pet shrinking ability. That way you and I can both be happy with whichever pet we choose to play :D
well, im not in the beta but i have 2 things to comment on that i think need to be fixed.
First, devilsaurs need a run animation, the fast-walk waddle is kinda silly looking for a T rex, the run animation is much cooler looking, full attack mode.
second, the ability Rabid, when it was shorter, with longetivity it could be up continously, now that they made it longer, it has a break in its use, i think they should lengthen the duration or cut the coodlown by 5 seconds to fix it
im not in the beta, so i cant post anything on the boards :(
Touche, and a very god solution. I just now got into the beta myself, so I’ll test things out accordingly.
good* For a Palladia double.
i just want my freeking beta patches to download so i can try and see how exotic pets scale with male taurens hight and so i can see what the armour looks liek for myself
Xanar: Whatever. Exotic pets don’t need to be shrunk, especially not Epic Devilsaurs. They’re currently hardly bigger than raptors now! They aren’t gonna be a “distraction” in raids. And I don’t see the “big deal” either.
Kristy, at the very least Xanar had a good solution. Take it to a logical step and make it into glyphs, to shrink larger pets, or grow smaller ones. Or heck, potions. Or if you want to be funny, a potion and a mushroom.
BLaugh, I hope they hold off for just a bit, to give me time to test the pet trees and put in some input.
I finally got in and tamed my wasp, and then put in my first beta suggestion. Have a way to turn off the “buzz” of the thing. Love the pet but after about 20 minutes you wanna pluck it’s wings. And as of now you can’t turn off the sound with out turning off ALL your sound effects. So I suggested theymake a way to. :)
All I have to say about the death knights is…. Coal black orc skin and DARK GREEN TAUREN fur… So sweet. so so sweet.
>>>I finally got in and tamed my wasp, and then put in my first beta suggestion. Have a way to turn off the “buzz” of the thing. Love the pet but after about 20 minutes you wanna pluck it’s wings.<<<
HAHA i will be doing just that if they leave the Wasps with the buzzing , although that is one of the pets i think is great looking and would tame . The gentle flapping of flying pets i do not mind but a constant buzz wow that would get annoying , to me as bad as that noise the crocs make.
im not beta tester, so, can someone please tell at forum that what CG sayed:
“The ideas is that Charge is generally better than Dash, but is deeper in the tree. Under this new change, for Tenacity Intervene is better and deeper.”
I want better Charge to tank pets ’cause they don’t have Dash. Thank you n_n
So I had a radical idea for cats and prowl:
Make Prowl a talented ability in the Ferocity tree. (Devilsaurs and moths and fireflies with prowl?!?! It’s about as reasonable as moths being ferocity, IMO.) Then, give cats Pounce–does x amount of damage and stuns for y seconds, and does [multiplier] damage if the cat gets it off during prowl.
Voila, cats fix’t.
*Gasp* Ansawa! They can’t use that! It would make sense!
I am not a beta-tester. Please someone in it help me give the feedback to Blizz if you feel my opinions are right.
1.Boar’s speed (pet movement speed +30%) is weak enough, there is no need to limit it “outdoor”.
2.Pets in cunning tree don’t need “Boar’s speed”. With Dash/Dive + Mobility, Cunning pets can DASH (+80% speed) all the time. It’s much more effective than Boar’s speed. No one will waste the talent point on Boar’s speed for Cunning pets. Please give them another talent or just remove it.
3.Tenacity pets seemed more sturdy and slower. It may be reasonable for tenacity pets having no DASH. So hunters can choose Boar’s speed to compensate this.
4.For boar’s family skill “Gore”, should it be better after dash nerf? My idea is that Gore is enhanced by debuff on the target, not by buff on the boar. Like the following: Gore the target for X damage. If the target is slowed, dazed, stunned, or imobilized, gore will do double damage.
@Xanar: the viability (or lack thereof) of Beast Mastery as a talent has been mentioned many times. It’s not actually clear as to whether it is currently worth it or not, since the exotic family abilities are actually pretty good relative to their non-exotic counterparts.
The pet size issue has also been brought up – the most popular option to fix it was a cosmetic Hunter glyph to reduce pet size by 30% or so.
The point of the bonus points, of course, is to allow a BM to gain a bonus when using a non-exotic pet. 4 points might not seem like much, but its basically an extra 4th and 5th tier talent, fully loaded, for free. If that doesn’t do it for you, maybe its the choices of talents, and not the bonus that is underwhelming, hmm?
GC responded and called for more feedback
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=9679804544&sid=2000&pageNo=2#34
“Here are some changes you’ll see next build or so. I may have forgotten some.
– Taunt no longer shares a cooldown with Growl and Cower.
– Avoidance, not Great Resistance, is the prereq for Wolverine Bite.
– We are still trying to rework Heart of the Phoenix to get around the shortcomings.
– Tenacity and Ferocity pets lost their armor multiplier but it was given to all pets at base. The net effect is that Cunning pets won’t be at a stat deficit compared to the other trees.
– Roar of Recovery provides more mana.
– Lick Your Wounds now with faster licking technology.
– Carrion Feeder cooldown dropped to 30. We can’t easily change the range because this spells uses the same tech as the undead racial.
– Focus cost removed from Bullheaded.
– Not directly talent-related, but rather than reworking Prowl, cats got a second damage ability, Rake. It felt odd for them to shift from most desired pet to one of the least desired.
As far as who belongs to which tree, those decisions were made largely based on the pet special ability, not what ecologically makes more sense with the tree’s theme. Strong CC or other PvP-useful abilities were generally given the Cunning tree, just because we didn’t also want to see those same pets as the most popular when raiding or soloing. The goal is to have a lot more options about which pet you’re going to bring. With the Cunning stat change and tree rework, hopefully that will include those animals as well.
Rather than start another thread, feel free to talk about any of the pet family abilities (Rake, Web, Poison Spit etc.) as well within this one. “
Thanks for the link, Gaj. I’ve added this to the original post as well.
“cats got a second damage ability”
Oh for. Unless it’s weak, Cata just got specially favoured, like Boars. What about those of us who used Carrion Birds or Ravagers?
Woot, second damage ability for cats!
I still like my frighteningly sense-making idea better, however. I’ll suggest that once I’ve got a beta character to post on…
I’d think the best idea, despite all the outcry it might cause, is to have Prowl replace Charge for ferocity pets, and move Charge over into Cunning, since its primary usefulness is in PvP. The reverse would be to leave Charge with Ferocity and move Prowl to cunning, but I’d prefer to keep Prowl with cats. Plus, with the exception of spiders, all the families we’ve ever seen prowling are in Ferocity–raptors, wolves, and cats. (Yes, there are INVISIBLE RAPTORS and INVISIBLE WOLVES in-game! Not to mention the fact Devilsaurs are suspiciously invisible in UGC.)
Grats, Cat lovers! You guys deserved it!
Daily Double: I wonder if maybe Ghostcrawler doesn’t read Mania?
Palladiamors: Maybe. And they better not be “holding off” on stupidly shrinking Exotic pets. That’ll suck alot.
Anyways that’s awesome that cats are gonna get a 2nd, special pet Skill!
I too put in suggestion about Cats and Prowl. Seeing as I only got in last night… that’s quick work! lol
Ooo, Rake! That was another good idea, and one I wanted for a long time. I just hope it has a bleed effect attached to it.
I may have missed this, but will respeccing a pet continue to have a minimal cost? Can you respec it as we do now? I know this sounds silly, but I have a feeling I’ll be playing with these trees a lot and I want to make sure my first choices aren’t permanent.
Nimzar: If they add a glyph to shrink pets I will use it. However, I view this solution with the same regard druids view the bear form appearance glyphs: Why should we be forced to use a glyph slot for a cosmetic change and lose a beneficial glyph? All they need to add is a simple shrink spell. Hunter’s can choose their pet size based on individual preference and all hunters can then use glyphs for beneficial effects.
So you guys think Rake will be similar to Savage Rend only without the chance of an AP buff?
any who finda a pet to be distrzcting in an instance or raid and is healing tanking or dpsing and actually clicks their targets or doesnt use an addon shouldnt raid. so dont complain about pet size unless your raiding and for some reason your guild whipes because YOUR PET is to big.
Xanar -
I might be wrong now….I dont have a BETA key after all.
But I thought we had a couple of normal glyph slots for like.. extra dmg on spells and stuff like that, and a few “minor” glyph slots..that only changed cosmetic parts of the game?
- Solarshot
I have never had any problems with pets as a healer, I can’t imagine anyone havin problems with that…and the ONLY addons I got is Bossmod and Omen :x (healbot is for wussies)
*Rolls his eyes* I’ve never used an addon, aside from RP ones, and I do just fine in raids, thank you, large pets or not.
Xanar, they have toned down devilsaur size, but its still large.
Its humorous how you mention pet size and everyone wants to call you noob or tell you to stop complaining. I don’t like huge pets. Its not because I cant find a way to play around them its just that I don’t want to. Its distracting to me as an individual. If you read what I have said all i’m asking for is the ability to make MY pet smaller – if you want godzilla thats your choice and more power to you.
Xanar: Who are you talking to? You can’t be rude here.
“Tenacity and Ferocity pets lost their armor multiplier but it was given to all pets at base. The net effect is that Cunning pets won’t be at a stat deficit compared to the other trees.”
I dont quite understand….might be me being tired 04:12 in the morning over here…but I dont understand what she means xD
I believe she means that all pets will now have something like 10% more base armor, and that all three trees will have a +0% armor mod. (I’m guessing on the percentage. Well, I’m guessing on all of it. But that’s how I interpreted it.)
I’m with Xanar, yes, I like the idea of being able to change *MY* pets size. And let’s face it, we’ve all been annoyed by that one guy with a bat in a tight hallway at one point. it doesn’t matter what your raid experience is, we’ve been there before lol. However, imagine that with the corehounds or rhinos. They are quite large. Don’t get me wrong, I love large pets, but having something optional control the size of *my* pet would be nice.
Now, I DONT want it to be a glyph though. A spell would be perfect. Sure, I like my big rhino outside, but when I want to go somewhere and have him offtank (let’s say), I’d like it manageable.
Perhaps what they can do is change pet size in instances? Say that if you zone in, all pets revert to a certain hieght level, like they receive a buff that shrinks them when you’re in an instance. Then when you step out, bam normal sized pet.
Heh. I love how people are all ‘QQ cats has no speshul dps skill they lose dps onoez they suk now’ and so Bliz goes ‘Hey, cats get another damage skill!’ and now you hear ‘QQ cats haz too much dps unfair! unfair!’ … Guess you really can’t make everyone happy.
Still, I’m VERY grateful for the speed of changes and the willingness Bliz is showing to respond to valid arguments. I think rather than a glyph though, an alchemical elixir of ‘Shrink Pet’ would be great (not that I’m an alchemist or anything *cough*) but a consumable would make rather more sense than burning a glyph slot on it. Sort of like anti-petbiscuits?
BTW, anyone that says ‘u clik u nub u no raid’ needs to back off. Because I’m a devout clicktargeter, and I raid all the time with no problem. Sometimes I use tab to cycle targets, but generally… *shrug* The four raid guilds that habitually ask me along on their raids can’t all be in error, IMO. (BTW… my raven does fine in Kara! Woot, carrion birds.)
Xanar: It’s not “funny”. I didn’t say or call you anything. Don’t be a jerk. And no, so-called “everyone” don’t wanna call me a “noob”. Nor do they wanna “tell me to stop complaining”, jerk.
Mania has already stated before to be polite on the forums. If you were wronged, doesn’t mean to wrong someone else. If you don’t agree with someone, that’s fine, but let’s not clutter up the comment page with angry comments at each other.
Mania’s Arcania » Feedback on Pet Skills + Incoming Talent Changes - September 13th, 2008 @ 2:36 pm UTC
[...] edited this into the previous post on the topic, but this news really deserves its own [...]
Whatever Rika. It applies to HIM too. Don’t frigging take sides here. You didn’t say anything to that stupid guy and you should’ve too. That’s wrong.
I’d test if they’d only send me a key already. (And if my SO cuts out the denial about us needing a new computer.)
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