Patch 2.4.3: Growl Threat & AP Buffs
Perhaps the most important change in Patch 2.4.3 for hunters is this one:
Growl: Pets will no longer generate additional threat from this ability based on attack power buffs cast on them. Attack power buffs on their master will still indirectly increase the threat generated by the pet’s Growl.
But what exactly does that mean?
What does this change do?
First, it may help to understand a bit more about how Growl generates threat. Briefly:
- Growl threat gets a bonus based on Attack Power. More Attack Power potentially means more threat generated by each Growl.
- Growl only begins to benefit above a certain threshold value. If the Attack Power is below the threshold, then Growl gets no bonus at all from Attack Power. Above the threshold, Growl gets a bonus based on any Attack Power above the threshold.
- The threshold varies based on the level of the pet.
(For more details, check out the new article on Petopia, Understanding Growl Threat. You can find it in the All About Pet Stats section of the site. That article is written for the post-2.4.3 world, so it doesn’t explain what has changed. But that’s okay because that’s the purpose of this post!)
Now you’ll note that I just said Attack Power. But whose Attack Power? Well, before Patch 2.4.3, Growl took its bonus from the total Pet Attack Power (PAP). The pet’s total Attack Power comes from the pet’s base power plus a portion of the hunter’s Ranged Attack Power (RAP) plus any AP buffs on the pet.
- A pet’s base power is the same for all pets of the same level. (Petopia has a handy table that shows these values.)
- The pet also gets about 22% of the hunter’s total RAP added to its total PAP.
- PAP buffs include things like Kibler’s Bits, the Leggings of Beast Mastery, and regular buffs like Blessing of Might and Trueshot Aura (cast directly on the pet).
After Patch 2.4.3, factor #3 — the direct pet buffs — will no longer count when figuring out the bonus for Growl threat. (But note that buffs like Trueshot Aura do still filter down to the pet via the 22% RAP -> PAP scaling. In other words, a hunter using Trueshot Aura is still increasing the potential bonus on Growl threat because he is increasing his own RAP, even though the direct buff to his pet’s PAP no longer counts for Growl threat.)
And since the base PAP is the same for any pet of the same level, we can easily factor that out, leaving us with just #2: the hunter’s RAP. So from that point of view, it makes a lot more sense to start saying that Growl scales with the hunter’s RAP rather than with the pet’s PAP.
Didn’t they already do that in Patch 2.4.2?
The patch notes for Patch 2.4.2 included the following note:
The pet ability Growl will no longer scale with pet Attack Power and now scales with the hunter’s Attack Power.
But despite the fact that the note was included in the patch notes, no change was actually implemented. Comments from Blizzard personnel after Patch 2.4.2 indicated that the underlying change was intended to disregard PAP buffs, but that they simplified the patch note to better reflect the end result.
So the short answer is: The patch note from 2.4.2 is equivalent to the patch note from 2.4.3, and now the change is actually implemented.
Is this a nerf or not?
Of course, for most hunters the details of this change are not nearly as interesting as how this is going to affect us.
On the one hand, the mechanics of Growl threat are largely unchanged. If your hunter’s RAP is above the threshold, then Growl generates bonus threat. And the amount of threat generated per extra point of power hasn’t changed either.
On the other hand, we can no longer use direct PAP buffs like Kibler’s Bits and Trueshot Aura to help push us above the power threshold. This means that it has become harder for players to reach and exceed the threshold and a lot fewer of us will be seeing any benefit from bonus Growl threat.
Marksmanship hunters will likely see the largest effect from this change, since many of them solo with Trueshot Aura. A lot of MM hunters are probably going to notice a lot more trouble with keeping aggro on their pet starting today. Most Beast Mastery and Survival hunters probably haven’t been surpassing the power threshold anyway, and so won’t see any difference at all.
But some good may come out of this. It’s always been a little odd that the pets of Marksmanship hunters generated more threat from Growl than the pets of Beast Mastery hunters. With luck, this change may signal an interest on the part of Blizzard in making all hunter pets generate more threat more evenly. Unfortunately there’s no hint of that at the moment, so we’ll just have to wait and see …
Conclusion
Hopefully that helps explain what this change means, both mechanically and in normal gameplay. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask in the comments. I’ll do my best to provide useful answers. :>
Table of Contents for Series: Patch 2.4.3
- Patch 2.4.3: Growl Threat & AP Buffs
- Patch 2.4.3 is Live!
- Patch 2.4.3: New Tameable Dragonhawk!
33 Comments
Really… I don’t know that it makes all THAT much difference largely because most people aren’t going to burn their buff petsnacks while soloing, and NO ONE with any SENSE has Growl on during an instance (which is where buff snacks and damage/durability becomes an issue). Hell, soloquesting at 70 is so easy, I even downgrade my ammo to something cheaper (I’m not going to waste the adamantite shells I need in Kara on a bunch of blood elves) because of financial concerns. MM hunters have always had trouble keeping aggro on their pets… tbh, the ones I know usually defend themselves with ‘but I can still kill it before it gets to me!’ so… there you go, I guess.
If you’re having a lot of trouble with aggro… I know it’s annoying, but find a pet with screech. If you can stand the incessant litany of ‘KEEE! KEEE! KEEE!’ Screech is -great- aggro glue. (Though someone on the WoW official fancomics board did a really amusing cartoon of what happens when someone’s doing the Sunfury Attack Plans quest with a dire raven…)
Has growl always had a 5 second CD?
Also, i notied the Thottbot links arent working correctly, some of them are sending me to off the wall stuff.
This is for BUFFS ONLY. So, MotW/GotW, Blessing of Might, etc. when cast on your pet will no longer boost his threat. In 2.4.2 it was a change regarding the base attack power of pet and Hunter. Now, this is changing the same thing, but only when it comes to buffs. Capice?
Ratrix: So far as I know, Growl has always had a 5 sec cooldown. At least that’s what Petopia says. *grin*
The Blessing of Might and Trueshot Aura links are searches, so they may show other things with those words in the title. (Like a Libram?) But I wanted to link all the ranks instead of one specific rank for those.
Ok, that last post seems confusing after I clicked “Submit”, so here we go again…
LOL
2.4.2 Made it so Growl scales with the Hunters AP, not the Pet’s. However, buffs put on a pet DID still modify their threat, along with buffs on the Hunter. Obviously an oversight by Blizztard.
2.4.3 Buffs no longer modify a Pet’s threat from Growl, so now the only threat modification from Growl only comes from the Hunter’s AP (buffed or unbuffed.)
Messyah: That’s one way to look at it, I suppose. :> But there was no visible change to Growl threat generation in any way with Patch 2.4.2. So I find this explanation somewhat simpler.
Just A Few Things « 35 Yards Out - July 15th, 2008 @ 4:03 pm EDT
[...] I’ll find out tonight to see if I lose aggro more often while doing dailies. Mania has also confirmed that this will [...]
As a casual (non raiding) Hunter, this change is a major NERF.
Getting to 1900+ RAP is only possible with items from those high-end instances :(
Those at Blizzard have absolutely no knowledge about this game - those who had must have left a long time ago.
Hi Mania,
Thank you for explaining it. I still don’t understand it (even reading the articles over on Petopia), but then I am not a rocket sciencetist and all this number crunching is too too much. And the imaginary numbers (thresh hold), lol, have blown my mind. :-O
@ Messyah’s comment (”This is for BUFFS ONLY. So, MotW/GotW, Blessing of Might, etc. when cast on your pet will no longer boost his threat”) - they would still help the pet generate threat through the damage done, no? I mean, growl won’t be affected but their regular attacks will, won’t they?
sara: Yes, and that’s a good point. Buffing your pet’s attack power still benefits the attack power — which means more damage from normal attacks. And damage generates threat. So buffing your pet is in no way useless — it just doesn’t generate all the extra bonus threat from Growl that it may have before.
Why did Blizz nerf growl in the first place, only thing I even used growl for in the first place is to do dailiys. lol.
Ouch Ouch Ouch… the golden age of the soloist hunter has come and almost gone… I did some tests and even foolishly got rid of any and all crit chance I have excluding ones with AP (one with lethals shots included as a talent and one without lethals shots talented - both with good and trash gear and lots of gold down the drain for respeccing), one good crit more than what your pet can do and the mob comes after you good…. I even used my level 34 bank hunter alt with trash gear and only doing a shot rotation of viper sting and arcane shot made them come after me after a large crit - obviously when I used multishot on one mob I always get almost unbreakable aggro unless I FD (i specced BM for that test on a level 34 alt) — so no amount of growl from pet will get it off and back to my pet (mmmm they must really hate my brand of aftershave). I have three hunters, two of which are level 65 and 70 respectively and the level 34 bank alt i fool around with when bored (i am a hunter nut and alternate specs from BM to Marks and to Survival from time to time, but alas, i guess I should spread the love to other characters, lol). Can’t verify with everyone else though, I only played for a couple of hours before my realm went kaput until blizzard could fix it.
Gonna try to tame a bird with screech like the other poster suggested to see if that helps or not tomorrow when I get back online.
I haven’t seen much of a change, but I’m above the 1900 RAP cutoff and a beastnoob 4 lyfe. ;) Which means I wouldn’t anyway.
Granted, I’ve just gotten used to the fact that I will pull things off my pet at some point in the encounter without a creative use of FD and MD. I am, alas, overpowered…and my damn T5 2-piece set bonus, while the best thing ever, adds 7.5% extra healing threat to me on top of every shot I make. Argh!
Screech really is quite good. I’ve leveled to 70 with my boyfriend and his Owl and we rarely have aggro issues, and since it hits multiple targets his pet can tank a handful of mobs with relative ease.
I did notice some issues today with aggro but I think that can be remedied with more careful gameplay.
I hope they’re just ‘preparing’ for the pet changes in WotLK.
Anywhoo, I’m BM, I’ve never used Kibler Bits, and I doubt I’m above the treshold (SP? :P), So it won’t affect me that much.
But the charge nerf, It’ve left my poor Piggy rotting in the stables. He just can’t hold aggro anymore :/
I can verify that screech is a godsend, even if it’s annoying as hell to hear constantly.. Alice my two headed carrion bird puts out a decent ammount of threat and she hasn’t used growl for a long, long time .. well every since pets started acting up >.>
I still say this was to stop gold farmers the lazy way >>
@ Messyah’s comment (”This is for BUFFS ONLY. So, MotW/GotW, Blessing of Might, etc. when cast on your pet will no longer boost his threat”) - they would still help the pet generate threat through the damage done, no? I mean, growl won’t be affected but their regular attacks will, won’t they?
——————————————————–
Sorry, I meant it wouldn’t boost threat from “Growl”.
screech and i have noticed furious howl gets their attn too its weird about the furious howl thing.. creates a wee bit of aggro
I noticed that my kitty wasn’t holding aggro nearly as well last night while farming motes in Nagrand. I had a new one that I was leveling, too (60) and had to stable it because I was sick of kiting when I didn’t want to (ie surrounded by mobs) lol.
I will experiment more with this, as I have three hunters who are all different specs, with three different pet types. I am specifically interested in my SRV who has all flyers to see if the owl and/or windserpant does any better.
I think this may mean we see more cats, ravagers and owls, though. Without the added help of boosted growl, pets like bears and boars are going to have a harder time holding aggro because they just don’t hit as hard =( although I had found in the past that lightning breath from my windserpant was an effective way to get the bad guys attention.
Er, its not that big of a nerf, unless you love to feed your pets Kiblers or are marksman. Funny thing is, if they leave the threshold the same for Wrath then it will be a pre-nerf for Wrath. Personally, past level sixty I had to get used to pulling aggro off my pet if I wanted to go full throttle on mobs. Best thing to do is take a slightly more relaxed pace. You don’t absolutely NEED to thread in a steady shot after every auto, nor do you need to hit arcane or multi every time its up. Give it some time, just auto shot and sting, and then unload. Chances are that even if aggro does come off your pet, it’ll be dead before it reaches you. If your one of those people who can pull aggro with one to many criticals, then my suggestion is to let your pet get off two growls, and then unload. Both of these tactics will take a few seconds more then usual, but hey, at least your not taking damage.
Mania .
I always play with my pets on Aggressive so this may be something with that mode but ?
Have you spotted any pathing changes as i am very curious about it recently .
I decided to try Arikara out and found at times he ? will not attack the nearest target but will fly past not getting any aggro usually but attacks a much further away target which i find rather odd , I only recently noticed this change but thought it was my new pet as it has that great appearance when it arrives with that puff of smoke , i thought it was slightly bugged , but having taken my Ghost Saber out she does exactly the same.
Also have you or anyone done any study of playing with the pet on aggressive ? i for one would be very curious as to what others think about as i had a few comments of madness on allakhazam ?
I have found any pet set on aggressive will love to attack anything lower than you are , the lower the better as if they are a few levels only below you then the pet takes longer to decide to attack, if the mob is the same level the pet rarely attacks before the mob wants to kill you , and a higher mob the pet ignores completely as far as i can tell .
So my playstyle may not be for all but it is extremely good fun as it adds that natural wild action that a real wild pet would have ( tame a real wild beast and it would still want to kill any mobs that could be a danger ) so in reality i am i guess playing a role as i level , i have never died because my pet is on aggressive .
I would love to hear any other hunters comments on the aggressive mode if they have tried it and if they liked it or hated it ?
I know in groups and instances it could wipe the group but i am talking about normal play doing quests or just farming , I have done it now for the past six months or longer and on several hunters from 10 to 70 and never yet died because of how i have my pet on aggressive , i have died a few times but only because i went places i got mobbed at .
As a side note, has anyone noticed snake trap behaving oddly? My dearest partner’s snake trap appears to be reacting strangely, only attacking the target that trips it and nothing else, even if said target dies before their duration is up.
Dear mania,
im leveling another hunter alt and for my pet to keep aggro what is your advice on improved hunter’s mark? Its worth it 5 points?
thank you
nfmarque: Improved Hunter’s Mark can be useful for increasing your pet’s overall damage and therefore the threat they generate from damage, but it won’t directly increase the threat from Growl. Personally I like to spend the 5 points on it, but I know other hunters who don’t think it’s worthwhile.
Uh oh…Im a MM hunter…
Dammit Blizzard! This is your fault! Dont be surprised if I stop playing!!!
*sigh* Time to get new pets *sob*
> PAP buffs include things like Kibler’s Bits, the Leggings of Beast Mastery,
> and regular buffs like Blessing of Might and Trueshot Aura (cast directly on
> the pet).
> After Patch 2.4.3, factor #3 — the direct pet buffs — will no longer count
> when figuring out the bonus for Growl threat.
What does it mean - “Leggings of Beast Mastery” are now almost useless ?
The stats from Pvp equipment already beat these leggings easily, except the pet buffs. So should I throw away this and use other equipment ? What’s that - they offered such a rare item and now it’s crap ?
Gosh, I’m still waiting for WAR…
Know it’s not really a ‘growl’ issue, but been leveling a hunter alt of mine over the last few hours, mostly due to the lv req for mounts [nearly lv 30 on her], anyways I’ve been noticing my pet is starting to ignore attacking a target I tell it to attack and will turn around and start attacking a completely different target; or will attack before coming right back too me. And now I know a Wind Serpent is a touchy creature, but Azreal was never like this before 2.4.3
It “means” that a idiot at Blizzard got angry because Hunters challenged his view of reality so he got a nerf implimented for hunters so reality would fit his perception of it.
There’s really no sugar coating this one.
(And MM is now deader than dead, pretty much)
This unfortunately is a large nerf towards main tanking hunters such as myself. Before I could, in 5 hunter groups, with TSA, Leggings of Beast Mastery and Kibler’s bits boost my pets aggro to have main aggro on bosses for quite a while.
Also, when having a pala in the group when main tanking, BoM made the threat generated really nice and meant noone would be able to outaggro it unless growl resist.
Peter: The Leggings of Beast Mastery still increase the pet’s attack power, which increases it’s damage (and the threat it generates from damage). And of course they still buff the pet’s armor and Stamina as well. So they aren’t by any means useless. They just no longer directly increase the threat generated by Growl. (Well the equip effect doesn’t. That +30 Agility on the hunter can indirectly affect Growl threat, if the hunter is above the Growl threshold.)
I’m a 70 Marksman Hunter, and I HATE the pet aggro nerf. I find myself doing a lot more nuisance crowd control and melee now; it’s VERY intrusive, though manageable. This functionally devalues Trueshot Aura for solo situations. Aside from the an apparent “because we can” attitude towards policy changes by the blizzniks, I see no point to this. I’m fond of my Warp Chaser, and was entirely satisfied with it before the change, but will need to investigate other species now. I derive NO BENEFIT from this change. It does not make my play more interesting, just busier. And does make me reconsider why I send these people money every month for behavior which, if they pulled it on one of my software teams, would probably result in a personnel action. So count me as coping tactically, but disgusted.
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