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	<title>Comments on: PTR 2.4.2: The Growl Saga Continues</title>
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	<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2008/04/27/ptr-242-the-growl-saga-continues/</link>
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		<title>By: Mania&#8217;s Arcania &#187; Patch 2.4.2: No Changes to Growl Scaling</title>
		<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2008/04/27/ptr-242-the-growl-saga-continues/comment-page-2/#comment-20247</link>
		<dc:creator>Mania&#8217;s Arcania &#187; Patch 2.4.2: No Changes to Growl Scaling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 16:50:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maniasarcania.com/?p=583#comment-20247</guid>
		<description>[...] and a number of other hunters (including Nimizar, Ashraf, Znodis and others) did extensive tests on Growl on the PTR. I made a false start with my first testing method, but after I settled on a valid method [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and a number of other hunters (including Nimizar, Ashraf, Znodis and others) did extensive tests on Growl on the PTR. I made a false start with my first testing method, but after I settled on a valid method [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Nimizar</title>
		<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2008/04/27/ptr-242-the-growl-saga-continues/comment-page-2/#comment-19619</link>
		<dc:creator>Nimizar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 06:24:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maniasarcania.com/?p=583#comment-19619</guid>
		<description>Hunter&#039;s haven&#039;t received any damage buffs recently Sei, and our actual damage output varies hugely depending on the armour of the mob we&#039;re shooting at. With Mortal Shots and a Relentless Earthstorm diamond, we can also get to crits doing 233% of normal damage. It is quite easy for a crit at the high end of a weapon&#039;s damage range to be more than 3 times a non-crit at the low end of the its damage range.

As far as threat goes, I haven&#039;t seen any hard evidence for anything other than a problem with Growl being starved of focus and hence going off a lot less frequently than once every 5 seconds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hunter&#8217;s haven&#8217;t received any damage buffs recently Sei, and our actual damage output varies hugely depending on the armour of the mob we&#8217;re shooting at. With Mortal Shots and a Relentless Earthstorm diamond, we can also get to crits doing 233% of normal damage. It is quite easy for a crit at the high end of a weapon&#8217;s damage range to be more than 3 times a non-crit at the low end of the its damage range.</p>
<p>As far as threat goes, I haven&#8217;t seen any hard evidence for anything other than a problem with Growl being starved of focus and hence going off a lot less frequently than once every 5 seconds.</p>
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		<title>By: Seidouyumi</title>
		<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2008/04/27/ptr-242-the-growl-saga-continues/comment-page-2/#comment-19434</link>
		<dc:creator>Seidouyumi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 04:01:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maniasarcania.com/?p=583#comment-19434</guid>
		<description>I think we&#039;ve forgotten that there really are two components to the equation- Hunter and Pet.  I&#039;m starting to think the issue may be Hunter side not Pet side.

I noticed that my ranged speed is no longer adjusting for my bow.  It reads a flat 2.00 no matter what my bow&#039;s speed is.  This affects my damage output.  I have also noticed that I am doing more damage than my bow should be doing, and my crits are hitting two to three times harder than regular damage.  A physical crit is suppose to be flat out twice the damage than the normal.  I&#039;ve had three times the normal damage happen.  I wonder if we&#039;re doing more damage than we were and this is eating through aggro faster than it should.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we&#8217;ve forgotten that there really are two components to the equation- Hunter and Pet.  I&#8217;m starting to think the issue may be Hunter side not Pet side.</p>
<p>I noticed that my ranged speed is no longer adjusting for my bow.  It reads a flat 2.00 no matter what my bow&#8217;s speed is.  This affects my damage output.  I have also noticed that I am doing more damage than my bow should be doing, and my crits are hitting two to three times harder than regular damage.  A physical crit is suppose to be flat out twice the damage than the normal.  I&#8217;ve had three times the normal damage happen.  I wonder if we&#8217;re doing more damage than we were and this is eating through aggro faster than it should.</p>
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		<title>By: Theza</title>
		<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2008/04/27/ptr-242-the-growl-saga-continues/comment-page-2/#comment-19428</link>
		<dc:creator>Theza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 01:35:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maniasarcania.com/?p=583#comment-19428</guid>
		<description>Well, I guess it can&#039;t get any worse than farming as a T5/T6 survival-hunter. I&#039;ve banned growl from my petbar like 2 month ago since most of the mobs are dead before they reach me anyways.
Its like it&#039;s been before petscaling and I feel like its getting worse with every piece of equippment i get :(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I guess it can&#8217;t get any worse than farming as a T5/T6 survival-hunter. I&#8217;ve banned growl from my petbar like 2 month ago since most of the mobs are dead before they reach me anyways.<br />
Its like it&#8217;s been before petscaling and I feel like its getting worse with every piece of equippment i get :(</p>
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		<title>By: Seidouyumi</title>
		<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2008/04/27/ptr-242-the-growl-saga-continues/comment-page-2/#comment-19424</link>
		<dc:creator>Seidouyumi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 23:10:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maniasarcania.com/?p=583#comment-19424</guid>
		<description>I hate doing a hat trick here.  However, I&#039;ve been working it out.  I&#039;m doing crits that are, sometimes, in excess of three times what they should be.  I&#039;ve done as much as 130 crit damage on a single hit.  Different Crits are producing a lot of damage.

I know we&#039;ve all talked about how we do two or three crits and pull aggro right now, and that didn&#039;t happen as much before.  I think this may be why.  I&#039;ve also been monitoring my outright damage and it seems higher than it should be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hate doing a hat trick here.  However, I&#8217;ve been working it out.  I&#8217;m doing crits that are, sometimes, in excess of three times what they should be.  I&#8217;ve done as much as 130 crit damage on a single hit.  Different Crits are producing a lot of damage.</p>
<p>I know we&#8217;ve all talked about how we do two or three crits and pull aggro right now, and that didn&#8217;t happen as much before.  I think this may be why.  I&#8217;ve also been monitoring my outright damage and it seems higher than it should be.</p>
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		<title>By: Seidouyumi</title>
		<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2008/04/27/ptr-242-the-growl-saga-continues/comment-page-2/#comment-19416</link>
		<dc:creator>Seidouyumi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:50:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maniasarcania.com/?p=583#comment-19416</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been doing some observing while playing and noticed something that I need confirmation on.  My critical strike damage is doing more than it should be.

An autoshot critical strike damage is coming out ten to twelve points higher in damage than the maximum base hit of 40 damage times two.

Arcane shot is critting for around five points more than double its base damage level (I&#039;m not even sure if this acts as a spell and should be doing 150% damage not 200%).

Aimed Shot is doing twice it&#039;s damage per crit, plus around ten additional points above and beyond this.  (Again, I&#039;m not sure if this counts as a spell, though I doubt it).

I&#039;ve had Aimed and Arcane crit back to back and pull the mob off my pet.  I&#039;m starting to wonder if some of our base damage has been altered.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been doing some observing while playing and noticed something that I need confirmation on.  My critical strike damage is doing more than it should be.</p>
<p>An autoshot critical strike damage is coming out ten to twelve points higher in damage than the maximum base hit of 40 damage times two.</p>
<p>Arcane shot is critting for around five points more than double its base damage level (I&#8217;m not even sure if this acts as a spell and should be doing 150% damage not 200%).</p>
<p>Aimed Shot is doing twice it&#8217;s damage per crit, plus around ten additional points above and beyond this.  (Again, I&#8217;m not sure if this counts as a spell, though I doubt it).</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve had Aimed and Arcane crit back to back and pull the mob off my pet.  I&#8217;m starting to wonder if some of our base damage has been altered.</p>
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		<title>By: Seidouyumi</title>
		<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2008/04/27/ptr-242-the-growl-saga-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-19399</link>
		<dc:creator>Seidouyumi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 16:55:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maniasarcania.com/?p=583#comment-19399</guid>
		<description>You know, I haven&#039;t asked this at all, but has anyone checked their damage over the damage they did before 2.4?  I wonder if there&#039;s been a buff to Hunter damage as opposed to a nerf in growl.

I&#039;m tired and in a bad mood, so I&#039;m not really going to get into the same arguement as before.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, I haven&#8217;t asked this at all, but has anyone checked their damage over the damage they did before 2.4?  I wonder if there&#8217;s been a buff to Hunter damage as opposed to a nerf in growl.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m tired and in a bad mood, so I&#8217;m not really going to get into the same arguement as before.</p>
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		<title>By: Ghanur</title>
		<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2008/04/27/ptr-242-the-growl-saga-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-19394</link>
		<dc:creator>Ghanur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:29:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maniasarcania.com/?p=583#comment-19394</guid>
		<description>* The &quot;Pet-Dance&quot; occured first when Blizzard was trying to improve pet survivability against boss mobs:
If the mob does not aggro the pet, it will move behind the mob else it will fight it where it stands.

The problem with this routine is, when a pet is ordered to attack a mob that&#039;s not aggroing anything - the pet rushes to the mob and tries to get behind it, while doing so, the mob gets aggro on the pet and moves toward the pet, the pet doesn&#039;t recognize that fact and still tries to get behind the mob, on and on, running through the whole area and aggroing on many more mobs -&gt; the programme routine does not check for aggro until the pet reaches the mob (dumb programmer!).

* Hunter as an &quot;Utility Class&quot;, best joke ever!
If it where true, our traps would have their CD lowered, at least, and we should have abilities to aggro on a mob with low to no damage, so we are able to lure them into our traps.
My guess is, those clueless people at Blizzard consider our auras as a superior utility...

@Temproc:
* Getting better gear will aggravate the problem: more DPS, more crit, more AP - but not enough AP to get growl back to a useful level.

---

- Blizzard nerfed growl on purpose, as I (and others) wrote several weeks ago. This is a poor attempt to stop bots.

- Their representatives on the forums are sounding more an more like those of Verant Interactive, back in the days of a Mr. McQuaid - &quot;they never make errors&quot;, &quot;the customers are too dumb&quot;, &quot;it was an error, we fixed it (after several years)&quot; - been there, done that!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>* The &#8220;Pet-Dance&#8221; occured first when Blizzard was trying to improve pet survivability against boss mobs:<br />
If the mob does not aggro the pet, it will move behind the mob else it will fight it where it stands.</p>
<p>The problem with this routine is, when a pet is ordered to attack a mob that&#8217;s not aggroing anything &#8211; the pet rushes to the mob and tries to get behind it, while doing so, the mob gets aggro on the pet and moves toward the pet, the pet doesn&#8217;t recognize that fact and still tries to get behind the mob, on and on, running through the whole area and aggroing on many more mobs -&gt; the programme routine does not check for aggro until the pet reaches the mob (dumb programmer!).</p>
<p>* Hunter as an &#8220;Utility Class&#8221;, best joke ever!<br />
If it where true, our traps would have their CD lowered, at least, and we should have abilities to aggro on a mob with low to no damage, so we are able to lure them into our traps.<br />
My guess is, those clueless people at Blizzard consider our auras as a superior utility&#8230;</p>
<p>@Temproc:<br />
* Getting better gear will aggravate the problem: more DPS, more crit, more AP &#8211; but not enough AP to get growl back to a useful level.</p>
<p>&#8212;</p>
<p>- Blizzard nerfed growl on purpose, as I (and others) wrote several weeks ago. This is a poor attempt to stop bots.</p>
<p>- Their representatives on the forums are sounding more an more like those of Verant Interactive, back in the days of a Mr. McQuaid &#8211; &#8220;they never make errors&#8221;, &#8220;the customers are too dumb&#8221;, &#8220;it was an error, we fixed it (after several years)&#8221; &#8211; been there, done that!</p>
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		<title>By: Nimizar</title>
		<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2008/04/27/ptr-242-the-growl-saga-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-19393</link>
		<dc:creator>Nimizar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:27:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maniasarcania.com/?p=583#comment-19393</guid>
		<description>Mania, I posted my latest threat testing results to the test realm thread - I think they make a pretty good case that Growl is still scaling with pet AP on the PTR (to the tune of 11 threat per pet AP once you get past that 734 pet AP threshold). (It does appear that boar charge threat has been specifically nerfed though - I suspect it is either forcing a melee attack immediately after the charge goes off, or the charge buff is being explicitly discounted when calculating the pet&#039;s AP for Growl scaling purposes).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mania, I posted my latest threat testing results to the test realm thread &#8211; I think they make a pretty good case that Growl is still scaling with pet AP on the PTR (to the tune of 11 threat per pet AP once you get past that 734 pet AP threshold). (It does appear that boar charge threat has been specifically nerfed though &#8211; I suspect it is either forcing a melee attack immediately after the charge goes off, or the charge buff is being explicitly discounted when calculating the pet&#8217;s AP for Growl scaling purposes).</p>
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		<title>By: Tempric</title>
		<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2008/04/27/ptr-242-the-growl-saga-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-19369</link>
		<dc:creator>Tempric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 03:21:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maniasarcania.com/?p=583#comment-19369</guid>
		<description>Has there been a stealth fix?  My owl is holding aggro even worse today and yesterday than before, and my RAP is very low for my spec, only 1496 with trueshot and AotH.  My owl only uses dive, growl, and screech in solo pve.  I am pulling aggro with auto shot crits, and having to kite a great deal.  Will getting better gear to increase my RAP really help with the aggro?  Or will it get worse as my damage increases?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Has there been a stealth fix?  My owl is holding aggro even worse today and yesterday than before, and my RAP is very low for my spec, only 1496 with trueshot and AotH.  My owl only uses dive, growl, and screech in solo pve.  I am pulling aggro with auto shot crits, and having to kite a great deal.  Will getting better gear to increase my RAP really help with the aggro?  Or will it get worse as my damage increases?</p>
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