PTR 2.4.2: The Growl Saga Continues

Hortus has posted several interesting replies on the WoW Public Test Realm forum today about Growl threat in Patch 2.4.2. Before we look at those responses, though, let’s sum up what’s been said so far.

First, the 2.4.2 Test Realm Patch Notes were posted, and included the note that “The pet ability Growl will no longer scale with pet Attack Power.”

Reading this, worried hunters asked for clarification on the PTR forums. Netharea responded several times:

  • “It [i.e. Growl] will scale with the hunter’s AP now.” (source)
  • “Growl was scaling incorrectly before so it’s been changed to scale with the hunter’s AP starting at around 1200 AP. Other pet abilities such as bite, claw, etc will still scale with pet AP.” (source)
  • “Please keep in mind this isn’t changing the normal amount of threat that pets produce.” (source)

After that, I and several other hunters tested the scaling on Growl from the hunter’s RAP on the PTR. I personally found no evidence that Growl scaled with the hunter RAP up to a RAP of 1853 (although at least one other hunter had conflicting results). At any rate, I posted my results on the PTR forum as a potential bug.

Hortus replied twice to this thread today.

First reply:

There was not a change to the way Growl scales with hunter AP, the bug fix eliminated growl scaling with the pet’s attack power.

Growl has always scaled with hunter attack power in exactly the same way as it does in 2.4.2, there were no changes. I have verified multiple times that growl threat does scale with hunter AP AND that it is doing so in the same way in 2.4.1 and 2.4.2.

I’m sorry if you were given the impression that this was a new feature.

Second reply:

This is the last post I will be making about pet threat, no matter what I say I’m accused of lying or being wrong. Right now as of 2.4.2 growl is creating the intended amount of threat and is scaling with hunter attack power at an intended rate. If you do not agree with this then please post your opinions in the appropriate forums (suggestions or class forums).

As this is not considered a bug no amount of posting here or in the bug report forums will get it changed.

Hortus also posted one more clarifying statement in another thread:

The only change to pet threat in 2.4.2 is that growl no longer gets bonus threat from buffs to your pets AP (such as charge or blessing of might).

So what are we to make of this?

First, it’s clear that the threat generated by Growl will not be scaling with pet AP in Patch 2.4.2. *grin* Seriously, though, this change will likely be noticed by: hunters who use boars, Marksmanship hunters who buff with Trueshot Aura, and group/raid hunters who are in the habit of getting their pet buffed with Blessing of Might and so forth.

Secondly, my data indicates that Growl is not scaling with hunter AP, but Hortus indicates that it is — which probably means that there is something wrong with the way I collected my data. My favorite theory right now is that Growl doesn’t begin scaling at 1200 RAP as Nethaera mentioned, but instead starts scaling at much higher levels of hunter RAP that my pitiful little character can’t get to. If we had pre-mades on this PTR I could test that, but we don’t. (Assuming that the scaling floor varies by level, I might be able to test this on a lower level character. I’ll try that next.)

In any case, it look like we’re going to have to rewrite the models of Growl threat with this patch.

[edit] I had a thought: We know that Growl (Rank 8) starts scaling on a level 70 pet when the pet’s AP reaches 734. Assume that the formulas are still the same but eliminate the AP strictly from the pet — now how much RAP does the hunter need to reach the same point? Turns out its 1955 RAP. I might be able to reach that on the PTR. At any rate, I am off to try!

[much later edit] The method I was using to test above turned out to be faulty. Myself and the other hunters who are putting in a lot of testing time on this matter (like Nimizar, Ashraf, and Znodis) worked out better methods and discovered that, with the exception of boars and Charge, Growl continues to work on the PTR in the exact same way it works on the live realms. As of build 8278, there has been no change in Growl scaling.

56 thoughts on “PTR 2.4.2: The Growl Saga Continues

  1. Palladiamors

    Can’t help with that level AP needed, sorry Mania. I might be able to scrape out seventeen hundred, but thats sacrificing vipers and a good deal of the survivability I have worked at. *Wrinkles his nose* And I’d still be two hundred short. I have a marskman friend, maybe I will tr a few test runs later and see if at least one of us can’t get to 2000 RAP. Lets see if we can’t figure this out!

  2. Fearstalker

    It’s a nerf.

    Whatever scaling on AP it was doing was already there, so we are getting a threat nerf, regardless of how Hortus stammers about it.

    So we are going to have problems, and will have to learn to deal with it. The new stuff by Hortus would indicate that a switch to MM isn’t going to help any BMers.

    sigh…

  3. Palladiamors

    It does kinda have the feel of a nerf, Fearstalker, but I think we’ll need to experience it firsthand to see. Though I do think it odd that they are nerfing one of a hunters main forms of survival, their pets aggro gathering. This is just speculation on my part, but I wonder if its meant to make the hunter less reliant on their pet? Hm. Curiouser curiouser.

    By the by Mania, how does it feel to you? Is it a large chunk less then what it was before, thus resulting in a more difficult experience, or is it not that much different?

  4. Bobo & SgtPork

    Any clarification of “Other pet abilities such as bite, claw, etc will still scale with pet AP.”? My understanding is that they don’t in 2.4.1

  5. Mania Post author

    So here’s the thing: On my main, I don’t use a boar, I’m not MM spec’d, I don’t group or raid, nor do I bother buffing my cat myself, and I have bad equipment. So my cat’s Growl is not currently scaling on the live realms — and this change won’t affect me.

    Having said that, I have no idea how much it might affect lower-leveled hunters, like Kaet or my stable of other alts. But I do know that this has moved the bar for Growl scaling further away for all my characters, since regardless of the character I’m not going to start grouping or raiding for the equipment it seems I’d need to get scaling to kick in. :>

    And setting all of that aside, I’d like to see them making pet threat more avaialble, not less, so that we can more easily branch out into other pet families without losing too much threat. So I am somewhat disappointed by this action in general.

  6. Elaith

    Talk about confusing!
    Does anyone truly KNOW what it did before patch 2.4.0?
    And what growl scales with now?

    I havnt tried my boar recently, mostly just use it to farm the very tough L70-71 elementals in nagrand, but i have noticed much more care is required when questing with my ravager. dead easy to pull aggro off it with a crit.
    Im only packing 1100ish AP.

  7. Seidouyumi

    I’ve noticed two odd things, and I think I’ve mentioned them before. I’ve never recieved a reply about them though.

    My pet does not seem to be generating any, shall we say, ‘existence threat’. Basically, right now, I can stand near a mob with my pet closer to the mob then me and not get attacked. If I stand where my pet is, however, I get attacked. Now, I’ve noticed this on both warlock and hunter. Before 2.4, my warlock could stand there and they would attack my minion instead, if he was closer. This is definately odd. If I send my pet or minion in to fight, they have to get pretty darn close to the mob in order for it to attack. I’ve never had this problem before. My Dragonhawk has to be almost ontop of the mob before it attacks.

    I have noticed that the third level of Growl is more likely to break than rank 2. Though, this might be due to my being Marksman and having a high, for lvl 30, crit rate.

  8. Rudda

    I’m 41/20 BM/MM spec. With my aspect of the hawk, I’ve got 1650 RAP. I have almost no problems with aggro on my cat on the live server. The cat has no “extra” buffs on it. The cat knows Growl, Claw, and Dash. I just have to wait for growl then open fire. If I do gain aggro its normally one shot from dead anyway so it never gets too me. That is just my personal experience for what its worth.

  9. Seidouyumi

    Sorry for the double post here. I’ve never recieved a reply from Blizzard about this. I think we’ve talked about it here though.

  10. Rudda

    Seidouyumi, I’ve also noticed the “existance threat” oddities. I recently tamed a lower lvl pet just to see how bad it was to get the loyalty up since 2.4.2. (that changed from roughly every 40k to every 63k for me at 70 and the pet starting at 60) Anyway, I noticed that walking by lvl 70 mobs, the cat was basically ignored even though it was closer than I was. Walk into a pack on purpose and they all initially attack me not the pet. The one the pet decides to pick on of course turns to the pet. I have also been amazed that while running to attack the pet doesn’t draw aggro even though it “runs over” another mob on the way. I used to use that trick alot to get to difficult quest objects. But then maybe they “fixed” that “bug”. Perhaps they thought we were to OP as a soloing lvling class . . . I’m interested to see how it all pans out.

  11. Varsar

    I still think it is as simple as the Borked something with pet aggro in 2.4 and simply can’t find a way to fix it. I’ve never seen Blizzard own up to a mistake, but i could have missed it.

    I dislike reading any post by Hortus but that is a common opinion from what i have seen.

  12. Alkiser

    It was posted awhile ago in the known issues thread that the ability charge (which raises the pets AP on the next attack, usually after a growl is triggered) was making growl generate to much threat. Thier fix to this was removing the scaling of growls threat from the pets AP and add it to the hunters AP. By and by this change should make growl generate the same amount of threat on all pets but boars. If the scaling is equal, which I would assume it is, pets should be generating the same amout of threat.

  13. Stephf

    With my pet,Night(Wolf), hes doing alot less threat now. Ive changed nothing to him nor my hunter, my damage is still the same (If not, less), and Night is dying more often since the patch opened up. Again, Ive done nothing to change our stats, but its very odd about whats been going on with pet threat. And its also my hunter friends (Dixylicious,Tauron and Bloodweep)who is also having affects with their pets,Ember(Dragonhawk),Kitty(Tiger) and Amulet(Warp Stalker).

    And we would all like to know if this is a bug,nerf, or is this going to be forever?

  14. Kalalay

    Maybe I’m reading something wrong, but from what the Dev’s (ie Hortus) have posted on the Blizz forums, the only change to Pet Growl is that it is no longer gaining a (scaled) boost from Pet Attk Pwr. It has always gained a (scaled) boost from Hunter Attk Pwr, as have Claw and Bite, but without the Pet boost the aggro is dramatically reduced, espeacily in the case of Charge which increased Pet Attk Pwr right before the first Growl.
    What I’d really love to know is if they plan on putting Growl back on the top of the priority pile, or if I’ll have to manually use my pets skills to keep Growl going off first?

  15. Varsar

    Yeah, Alkiser we are (well most of us) well familiar with the charge+growl issue.. I think most hunters knew about it before blizzard did.

    But pet aggro has been wacky since 2.4 when there were NO, i repeat NO, listed changes that should have effected pet threat.

    If they do the scales with huners AP instead of pets AP that alone shouldn’t really show us any real difference in threat. well if they do it right, since our AP has always buffed pets AP.

    Seidouyumi- ‘existence threat’ as you put it could be some kind of serious issue if mobs are ‘failing’ to notice a pets at all.. that could wipe all aggro even if it just for a split second, or worse the mob could then consider our pet dead.. That could explain the problem I’ve had with multiple mobs on my gorilla. If he ‘Blinked’ out to the mobs for even a fraction of a second they would turn from him to me.

    Hmm food for thought

  16. Varsar

    Kalalay- At this point I’m not even reading what the blue posters are typing to us.. because they tell us different things… and bite/claw have never scaled with AP… which is the most confusing thing I’ve ever read.. of course maybe it does scale.. but the scaling point is so crazy no one has ever seen it

  17. Tiiaa

    I hate it when they start talking about aggromanagement when its about solo farming or questing. Its not like any other class has to autoattack with less and less margin for specials the better their gear gets. Heck, my Zul Aman equipped def warrior wearing fury gear outpaces my sunwell raiding hunter in killspeed when doing dailies or farming marks etc. by a good amount, and there is something wrong about that in my book.

  18. Ghanur

    * Pet does not generate threat even if running through Mobs – good for pulling singles.
    * They tell us that pet aggro should scale with hunter AP, but this starts at a ridiculous high value (ok, it’s test, but how often did Blizzard rush things live that screwed hunters?!).

    It only shows, that someone is poking around the code with absolutely no knowledge about it.

  19. Malclenn

    I just want to point out some things:
    First I’ve had trouble with pets holding aggro since BC came out. Before BC came out I could stand back and use all my shots and not pull aggro until the mob was almost dead and it died on the way to me never got close, since BC I’m in constant Melee unless I use Feign Death to drop Aggro back to my pet. I’ve not noticed any difference with the most recent patch.
    Second which AP are they using RAP or melee AP there is at least a 100 point difference on my hunter

  20. Ryai

    >.> I only have 1.2k RAP with AotH, and I rarely have AotH now, thanks to mana regen change and like most hunters, it’s usually AotV [unless safe auto shoot grinding]

    Anyways, I remember a comment Hortus said, that made me feel so loved and realised how ‘nice’ he really is >> anyways amongst it he said Hunters weren’t supposed to have an E.Z mode for aggro/threat mangement. Which I just call a stealth nerf because they’re to lazy to do something really productive about gold farmers.

    ._. and I don’t do instances much, I don’t raid much, I would like to but I don’t have the time and I’ve rarely seen people ask for a hunter, and if they do it’s for cc not dps and I’ve never learned how to kite+cc to the extent someone doing it from day one has. [I am trying to learn tho]

    I just wanted to stop out having the mob in my face, instead of my pets’, is that really so evil.

  21. Gort

    I think Ryai got it nailed.

    Blizz wants to stop the bots… easiest way… stealth nerf Hunters.

    and Hortus has an attitude:)

  22. Jason

    As a relatively new hunter (I converted from Pallies a couple of months ago), I’m still having trouble understanding whether you can set a pet to carry out commands in a particular order during combat. I tried to set Scuttle, my ravager, to Growl as often as possible and hold the aggro but of late I’ve noticed he likes to Bite people’s faces off instead. Do I need to show him more macro lurve or am I just missing something? :)
    (With apologies for the huntard question!)

  23. Kat

    I’m sorry but even moving my full epic’d out hunter onto the PTR and being buffed to my eyeballs I can’t even muster more then 1700 as a BM hunter. No matter what Hortus says, something has changed. What I can’t fathom and wish I could ask just one of their developers that works in the hunter code is this:

    If you didn’t intend that hunters be a ranged DPS class, why did you give us pets that are suppose to act like our “tanks” so to speak. If our DPS comes from ranged why then are you making it so difficult to deal that damage. If you wanted us as a melee class with the mob in our face then why do we have bows and guns?

    Second, why are you messing around with our pets mechanics that have been this way forever?!

    Sorry if this sounds like a rant but I won’t even get into what I think about the Charge issue.

    I have always loved being a hunter, and it just tears me up inside to see how it’s becoming such a broken class.

  24. Seidouyumi

    I’ve gotten a feeling that Hortus needs a break from the forums. I’m sorry to say that a lot of it has to do with dealing with the player community. Far too many people get on the forums to yell, scream and cuss at the developers and the guys working the forum bear the brunt of it. After a while of being insulted, cussed at, and degraded, it’s very hard to be nice to everyone. There’s an artform to insulting people without seeming to be mean and nasty. They haven’t developed it yet.

    I’ll post again about the ‘existence threat.’

  25. Felandra

    Where does the 1955 AP come from Mania? If our pet’s own AP doesn’t help Growl it should be discounted entirely.

    For us to give our pet more than 734 AP, to topple the scale at which Growl begins to be boosted, and we have to assume that stays according to hortus, we would need to have a personal AP of 3337. Call me cynical and all, but that just isn’t attainable ever.

    Accept it, Growl doesn’t scale outside rediculous tests.
    We have been nerfed.

  26. Seidouyumi

    Growl is suppose to scale with Ranged Attack Power. This gets translated into a Spell Bonus which in turn affects six skills, one of which is Growl.

    HOWEVER, I did try the whole existence threat issue and came up with some weird issues.

    I used Eyes of the Beast to control my pet, went in and stood near some mobs. The mobs did attack my pet, but I had to be within melee range to have them attack. If I tried to pull the mob anywhere, they then attacked my hunter. They weren’t even within ranged attack radius, but they made a bee line to my hunter. I tested it twice, once using my Dragonhawk and the second using my Carrion Bird. It didn’t matter what direction I went. If I tried to draw them away at an angle or further away, the mob turned and went for the hunter.

    I am beginning to think that the issue may be that the mobs don’t see the pet as being an extension of the Hunter anymore.

  27. Znodis

    /sigh

    They don’t tell us how growl/threat was supposed to work before the change. They tells us 3 different and contradictory things about how it’s going to change. They don’t tell us how growl/threat is supposed to work in 2.4.2. AND THEN he gets all upset when we’re confused and angry for not telling us what’s going on.

    Great community management. WoWcmfeedback@blizzard.com Use it.

  28. Seidouyumi

    I wonder if this is an ‘unintended consiquence.’ Hunters and Warlocks have always had issues with mobs running in to attack a pet or minion and overshooting. This causes the pet and minion to run along in a line passed the hunter sometimes and almost halfway across the zone.

    It suddenly struck me that this isn’t happening on my Dragonhawk or any other pet except my Serpent. Serpents have a ranged attack. I have to test it on my Wind Serpent. I wonder if they severely reduce the aggro radius of the pet in order to elliminate the kiting problem and unintentionally (and possibly not noticable) altered the pet’s aggro.

    I posted about this on the WoW site.

  29. jeanericuser001

    As far as the pets over shooting their target, that might have to do with the landscape since often I have found with uneven surfaces or with obstcles, your pet will overshoot to a certain degree before getting to the target. The only way around this I have found is either to get a target to more open field space or go for a pet like warp stalkers or rely on a range pet.

    As for the attack power, I think the reason they are scaling this so high is because they are prepping the way for the next expansion pack since I suspect that stats for some of the gear there will be almost a 50% higher than outland and 2 times higher than that of azeroth. If that is the case than it will be very easy for a hunter to achieve a very high lvl of attack power which will in turn affect the pet’s growl capabilities. The problem is its being implemented a little too early and because they are still working out the bugs you will see growl become more and more useless which is why hunters may have to change tactics to avoid relying too much on growl.

    As for the possibility of nerfing hunters altogether, I think that could be a fair assumption to make since in a lot of people who often prefer their own class often detest other clases that have an advantage in their minds. Often jealous in turn leads to complaints which in turn leads to rumor mongering, and before long even bliz hears that something is getting a little too unfair so they nerf it. Hunters it seems are the latest thing that some people have a beef with so as a result a certain skill we like gets turned into hamburger. Hopefully it could change but that is up to bliz for now.

  30. Mania Post author

    Jason: Not a huntard question – things are in serious flux right now. :> Normally you wouldn’t need to reply on macros or manual pet skill toggling to keep enough focus for Growl, but right now there is a bug that messes up the priority of pet skills, so you may need to resort to these methods. When (and if) they fix that bug, you’ll be able to trust your pet to Growl when he can and Bite otherwise.

    Felandra: To get the 1955 RAP, I first subtracted the base AP that all pets have at level 70 (304) from 734 to get the current *bonus* AP that pet’s need on live to start scaling.

  31. Vronsky

    I’m confused about the intentions for the class. On one hand we’re told they want us to have to do more than just sit back and shoot, but with the recent changes it’s difficult to not draw agro or go OOM unless you only send the pet in and autoshoot (after an appropriate delay). Not complaining, it is still much easier to level hunters than the shaman or warrior that I’m currently trying to muster the desire to play.

  32. Varsar

    LOL Vronsky I think Blizzard is confused about the intentions of the hunter class.. they completely designed hunters for ranged damage.. even survival specs ends up getting Ranged buffs, but they want us to more than sit back and shot… so yeah they are confused

  33. Palladiamors

    Varsar, it was actually stated just prior to TBC that hunters were not meant to be a ranged DPS class. They were stated to be a ‘utility’ class, and that was their reasoning behind nerfing the hunters 2AP per agility stat. Yet in the expansion, I think we saw what, maybe one skill introduced for utility? Misdirection. And honestly the jerks abuse it so much that I’d be willing to give it up for something else.

    Our entire class is designed around ranged damage, straight down to giving us a distraction, to allow us to shoot safely from range. One ‘problem’ is that this makes any intelligent hunter the bane of anything caster, not several tiers of gear above you. But what we’re seeing isn’t PvP nerfs. Its PvE nerfs. Several people have mentioned that it might be an attempt at stopping botting. While this is a viable theory, if thats the case, then its stupid. I pay just as much to play and enjoy my class as anyone else. I feel like that nerfing a class because of something like that isn’t just lame, its also infringing on the rights of the normal people who play the class. You want to stop farmers, find another way to do it, and catch them, but lay the heck off of nerfing classes as a solution. I can’t speak for everyone, but I am getting seriously sick of all these hidden nerfs, and of all the lack of attention to the classes real issues.

    As an aside, they changed the graphic for warlocks incinerate recently. My question is….. why? There are so many other issues that need attention, I seriously doubt that changin’ effin’ graphics should be high on the priority list.

  34. Znodis

    @27 Seidouyumi

    It sounds like you sent your pet over without attacking to agro the mob and a short while later the mob agroed on you. Correct?

    Did you have AotV on? Your pet would have agro but no threat. With 0 threat, a single tick of Viper would be enough to pull agro.

  35. Tempric

    I am really disappointed. I have been experimenting with different pets lately on my main and my alt hunters, and I want to be able to use the oddball pets. I don’t want to have to follow the crowd. I don’t raid, rarely pvp, and primarily do solo pve in nothing better than blues. This is… just really frustrating.

  36. Palladiamors

    Flyntlock, it might help, but we shouldn’t HAVE to resort to things like that. Its bad enough that our pets and many of our abilities scale poorly, to have to switch to a lower DPS weapon would just be insult to injury.

    Tempric, you can use oddball pets reliably, and in fact earlier in levels the ‘oddballs’ will probably be better choices anyway. Using a pet with just bite and growl, and maybe a family ability will allow the pet to focus mainly on growl, which will help out their aggro generation in the long run. And even later the difference really just comes down to DPS or growl. My wolf and serpent both typically keep aggro better then my cat, but my cats targets die just a hair faster. Its all a matter of preference.

    On a related note, this patch had better not screw with that. I’m already ticked that our pets will be losing that additional aggro generation, and we’ll be getting crap in return for it, but if it messes up aggro generation on other levels, then just…. gah.

  37. Commocarl

    I thought i would chime in on this. If you watch the cast bar and let growl hit twice, you won’t pull aggro. It basicly ammounts to 2k threat (omen). I usually don’t wait the two growls as I can kill most mobs before they get to me. But in situations that you don’t want to pull aggro, the 2k threat lead is more than enough to hold the mob, no matter what rotation you use. I have 1955 RAP as a BM currently. With scaling probably starting at 1955 as mentioned above, I think the 2 growl rule will bare out as our best option now.

    BTW <3 Mania

  38. Elanesse

    Long time reader, first post.

    I’m MM spec, and this info may help. I have about 2300+ RAP. I run around farming with Trueshot and Aspect of the Hawk up. My pets do have some hard time holding aggro. But, generally, I can only steal it one or two shots before the kill.

    Every now and then, I pop-up my Aspect of the Viper. This is when it gets interesting. I pull aggro much more often than when AotH is up. So, it would seem that at my current RAP, +155 from AotH gives a reasonable boost to Growl.

    I’m not much into going to the PTRs to test, but I’ll burn one of those Flask of Relentless Assault to test this a little bit more on live.

    On a side note, and maybe OT here: I had the impression, when levelling a pet from 60 to 70, that he was able to hold aggro much better when lvl 69 and Growl 7 than he does at lvl 70 and Growl 8.

    PS.: Sorry for the english… it’s not my first language.

  39. Seidouyumi

    The highest Hunter I have is level 30, so I don’t have aspect of the viper yet. I did not attack the mob with either my pet or my hunter. I just stood there.

  40. Varsar

    Palladiamors I remember reading about hunters being more of a utility class.. but reguardless as we both seem to agree the class is designed around ranged damage. Traps are helpful but on too long of a CD.. now if each trap was on it’s own CD that might be different. and if our aspects where all group buffs, or had group buff versions then I could see lowering damage and pet utility but they won’t do any of that.

    Commocarl I’ve let my pet growl 4 times and still managed to pull aggro and the mob was at 58% life when I started attacking. 1 SS and 2 autoshots and a mend pet, I had aggro. I’ve used a growl and an Intimidate and STill pulled aggro in 3 or 4 shots. So there isn’t a clear cut answer for all hunters.. what works for one doesn’t seem to work for another there doesn’t even seem to be 3 or 4 answers and that is more a problem than anything.

  41. Palladiamors

    Elanesse, you did just fine. Better then a lot of people who know English as their first language.

    Varsar, our utility, frankly, sucks. Hunters are still managing to scrape out a living as a DPS class, but with so many classes that are more designed for it, it makes it hard to solidify a place in raids and such. Our traps require much more skill then standard CC, easily break, have a long cooldown, and are overly suspectible to being broken. Survival has an advantage in CC, but not a huge one. Marksmen bring trueshot aura, which is something. Beastmasters… beastial inspiration, is it? And that requires our pets to critical, and then its just a 3% increase. Snake trap is laughable utility in PvP, since the poor snakes can be sneezed on, and die. Whoever thought Steady Shot was a wonderful skill to toss in needs to die. Don’t get me wrong, I thread in steadies in a shot rotation on my rare runs, but its…. a slight increase to normal auto shot damage, with a larger increase if they are dazed. Its only, ONLY redeeming value, and the only reason I thread the stupid thing in at all, is because it doesn’t reset your shot timer. And hey, guess what! Its a DPS ability, not a promised utility one.

    I rambled. Sorry, was busy being aggrivated. I love the class, I do. I just think it needs more attention to be as great as it deserves to be.

  42. RealUnimportant

    You know what I think still sucks, and is still ridiculous? That BM hunters can basically never get their pet’s Growl to scale up… Oh sure, we get a once-a-minute taunt instead, but that’s hardly the same is it? I was levelling a lowbie pet recently, and it made more sense to respec MM so my pet could benefit from the scaled Growl!

  43. Uncle Jay

    I began noticng problems with pet threat generation back in the Skyguard/Ogri’la patch. It was minor at first, but seems to have deteriorated rapidly in the patches that followed. I run a SV spec, and have nearly 37% crit unbuffed, so my pet now is nothing more than a distraction and I find the class I love the most being nerfed to hell. I really don’t clearly understand what the “change” in growl is, but I guess it really doesn’t matter since it hasn’t worked for months anyfreakinways. All I know is Hortus is full of it, and anything he says is a load of crap. I would believe the headlines on the National Enquirer before I would the crap that comes out of his mouth. BTW great job giving the site a makeover.

  44. Tempric

    Has there been a stealth fix? My owl is holding aggro even worse today and yesterday than before, and my RAP is very low for my spec, only 1496 with trueshot and AotH. My owl only uses dive, growl, and screech in solo pve. I am pulling aggro with auto shot crits, and having to kite a great deal. Will getting better gear to increase my RAP really help with the aggro? Or will it get worse as my damage increases?

  45. Nimizar

    Mania, I posted my latest threat testing results to the test realm thread – I think they make a pretty good case that Growl is still scaling with pet AP on the PTR (to the tune of 11 threat per pet AP once you get past that 734 pet AP threshold). (It does appear that boar charge threat has been specifically nerfed though – I suspect it is either forcing a melee attack immediately after the charge goes off, or the charge buff is being explicitly discounted when calculating the pet’s AP for Growl scaling purposes).

  46. Ghanur

    * The “Pet-Dance” occured first when Blizzard was trying to improve pet survivability against boss mobs:
    If the mob does not aggro the pet, it will move behind the mob else it will fight it where it stands.

    The problem with this routine is, when a pet is ordered to attack a mob that’s not aggroing anything – the pet rushes to the mob and tries to get behind it, while doing so, the mob gets aggro on the pet and moves toward the pet, the pet doesn’t recognize that fact and still tries to get behind the mob, on and on, running through the whole area and aggroing on many more mobs -> the programme routine does not check for aggro until the pet reaches the mob (dumb programmer!).

    * Hunter as an “Utility Class”, best joke ever!
    If it where true, our traps would have their CD lowered, at least, and we should have abilities to aggro on a mob with low to no damage, so we are able to lure them into our traps.
    My guess is, those clueless people at Blizzard consider our auras as a superior utility…

    @Temproc:
    * Getting better gear will aggravate the problem: more DPS, more crit, more AP – but not enough AP to get growl back to a useful level.

    - Blizzard nerfed growl on purpose, as I (and others) wrote several weeks ago. This is a poor attempt to stop bots.

    - Their representatives on the forums are sounding more an more like those of Verant Interactive, back in the days of a Mr. McQuaid – “they never make errors”, “the customers are too dumb”, “it was an error, we fixed it (after several years)” – been there, done that!

  47. Seidouyumi

    You know, I haven’t asked this at all, but has anyone checked their damage over the damage they did before 2.4? I wonder if there’s been a buff to Hunter damage as opposed to a nerf in growl.

    I’m tired and in a bad mood, so I’m not really going to get into the same arguement as before.

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