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	<title>Comments on: Hortus Says Growl + Charge Aggro is a Bug</title>
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	<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2008/04/07/hortus-says-growl-charge-aggro-is-a-bug/</link>
	<description>Flotsam from too many sites</description>
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		<title>By: Introducing&#8230; The New Ragga &#171; Mama Druid</title>
		<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2008/04/07/hortus-says-growl-charge-aggro-is-a-bug/comment-page-2/#comment-30137</link>
		<dc:creator>Introducing&#8230; The New Ragga &#171; Mama Druid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 21:36:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maniasarcania.com/?p=535#comment-30137</guid>
		<description>[...] unlike the old Ragga, this new one will not be leveling with a cat. Despite the recent nerf to charge, the new Ragga tamed a boar and named him Bambaataa for uber [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] unlike the old Ragga, this new one will not be leveling with a cat. Despite the recent nerf to charge, the new Ragga tamed a boar and named him Bambaataa for uber [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Seidouyumi</title>
		<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2008/04/07/hortus-says-growl-charge-aggro-is-a-bug/comment-page-2/#comment-18164</link>
		<dc:creator>Seidouyumi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:48:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maniasarcania.com/?p=535#comment-18164</guid>
		<description>Elaith-

None of my hunters are high enough to have that yet.  What&#039;s more, I&#039;ve had the mob come right at me even if they see my pet first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elaith-</p>
<p>None of my hunters are high enough to have that yet.  What&#8217;s more, I&#8217;ve had the mob come right at me even if they see my pet first.</p>
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		<title>By: Varsar</title>
		<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2008/04/07/hortus-says-growl-charge-aggro-is-a-bug/comment-page-2/#comment-18145</link>
		<dc:creator>Varsar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 06:32:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maniasarcania.com/?p=535#comment-18145</guid>
		<description>Elaith

Spirit heal could do it... but I don&#039;t have spirit heal</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elaith</p>
<p>Spirit heal could do it&#8230; but I don&#8217;t have spirit heal</p>
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		<title>By: Elaith</title>
		<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2008/04/07/hortus-says-growl-charge-aggro-is-a-bug/comment-page-2/#comment-18131</link>
		<dc:creator>Elaith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 03:22:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maniasarcania.com/?p=535#comment-18131</guid>
		<description>Regarding pulling a mob off your pet that you havnt even aggro&#039;ed, Ive seen that also, and i suspect i know what is causing it.

When my ravager/boar attacks a mob, all the aggro is directed on one mob, any other mobs that attack the pet are only &#039;held&#039; there by the monster seeing the pet first. (no screech/howl/thunderstomp here)

Obviously a heal on the pet will pull the 2nd mob off, but i believe a &#039;spirit bond&#039; heal is now strong enough to pull aggro also.
Ive seen it a number of times when deliberately testing aggro on lower level mobs, and i dont think ive seen it prior to 2.4.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding pulling a mob off your pet that you havnt even aggro&#8217;ed, Ive seen that also, and i suspect i know what is causing it.</p>
<p>When my ravager/boar attacks a mob, all the aggro is directed on one mob, any other mobs that attack the pet are only &#8216;held&#8217; there by the monster seeing the pet first. (no screech/howl/thunderstomp here)</p>
<p>Obviously a heal on the pet will pull the 2nd mob off, but i believe a &#8216;spirit bond&#8217; heal is now strong enough to pull aggro also.<br />
Ive seen it a number of times when deliberately testing aggro on lower level mobs, and i dont think ive seen it prior to 2.4.</p>
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		<title>By: Seidouyumi</title>
		<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2008/04/07/hortus-says-growl-charge-aggro-is-a-bug/comment-page-2/#comment-18010</link>
		<dc:creator>Seidouyumi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Apr 2008 21:57:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maniasarcania.com/?p=535#comment-18010</guid>
		<description>Varsar-

Thanks for confirming this.  I&#039;ve had it happen not only on my Hunter, but my lvl 51 (oh my, I hadn&#039;t leveled Shijoshin is SO long!) Warlock.  I respecced her to full Demonology and even with Cleave on the Felguard, I had to be careful of some mobs ignoring him and attacking her.

I&#039;ll work this up and post it on the Bugs forum.  This has GOT to be a bug.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Varsar-</p>
<p>Thanks for confirming this.  I&#8217;ve had it happen not only on my Hunter, but my lvl 51 (oh my, I hadn&#8217;t leveled Shijoshin is SO long!) Warlock.  I respecced her to full Demonology and even with Cleave on the Felguard, I had to be careful of some mobs ignoring him and attacking her.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll work this up and post it on the Bugs forum.  This has GOT to be a bug.</p>
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		<title>By: Varsar</title>
		<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2008/04/07/hortus-says-growl-charge-aggro-is-a-bug/comment-page-2/#comment-18000</link>
		<dc:creator>Varsar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Apr 2008 17:53:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maniasarcania.com/?p=535#comment-18000</guid>
		<description>Seidouyumi (and everyone else) There is indeed some kind of change in pets holding aggro off multiple mobs. if you deal damage to one mob the other(s)will aggro you, if your pet just ignores it, you pull aggro. I had a mob aggro my pet while I was typing a message to a friend and just shrugged it off know my pet was fine (even though he was on passive) for a few seconds.. much to my surprise the mob left my pet and came after me. Neither my pet or I did a thing.. I tried it several more times and it repeatedly happened. Eyes of the beast is great for getting a mob to aggro your pet without doing any damage.

I figured I&#039;d try it on a different mob type (the first were the ogers in zanga marsh) So I went back to hellfire and tried it on the boars there.. and they didn&#039;t deaggro I had to set the pet attacking because it took my pet to 40% life. I tried it on the Orcs in hellfire and I had about a 40% rate of them coming after me. I went to Silithus and couldn&#039;t get a single mob to come after me. I couldn&#039;t even pull aggro off my pet with us both attacking. 

Pet Threat is just weird now and I really don&#039;t have a clue what it is.

The best solution to multiple mobs is to alternate what mob you pet is attacking.

If the problem is indeed focus dumbs causing growl not to cast, it would explain why my Gorilla is fine on one mob these days All he has is bite and growl.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seidouyumi (and everyone else) There is indeed some kind of change in pets holding aggro off multiple mobs. if you deal damage to one mob the other(s)will aggro you, if your pet just ignores it, you pull aggro. I had a mob aggro my pet while I was typing a message to a friend and just shrugged it off know my pet was fine (even though he was on passive) for a few seconds.. much to my surprise the mob left my pet and came after me. Neither my pet or I did a thing.. I tried it several more times and it repeatedly happened. Eyes of the beast is great for getting a mob to aggro your pet without doing any damage.</p>
<p>I figured I&#8217;d try it on a different mob type (the first were the ogers in zanga marsh) So I went back to hellfire and tried it on the boars there.. and they didn&#8217;t deaggro I had to set the pet attacking because it took my pet to 40% life. I tried it on the Orcs in hellfire and I had about a 40% rate of them coming after me. I went to Silithus and couldn&#8217;t get a single mob to come after me. I couldn&#8217;t even pull aggro off my pet with us both attacking. </p>
<p>Pet Threat is just weird now and I really don&#8217;t have a clue what it is.</p>
<p>The best solution to multiple mobs is to alternate what mob you pet is attacking.</p>
<p>If the problem is indeed focus dumbs causing growl not to cast, it would explain why my Gorilla is fine on one mob these days All he has is bite and growl.</p>
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		<title>By: Cryptography</title>
		<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2008/04/07/hortus-says-growl-charge-aggro-is-a-bug/comment-page-2/#comment-17982</link>
		<dc:creator>Cryptography</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Apr 2008 08:28:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maniasarcania.com/?p=535#comment-17982</guid>
		<description>Threat management is a problem for all classes.  It appears that some earlier posters don&#039;t understand how threat works.

If you are in melee range, you need to generate 110% of the threat to steal aggro from the current tank.

If you are back at long range, you require 130% of the tanks threat to steal aggro.

Hunters and most casters need to stand away from the target!

If you need to steal aggro off someone, then they need to stop generating threat, and you need to get in close (or your pet needs to) to maximise your chances.

I have been using updated versions of omen to track threat generation before, during and after the 2.4 series patches. Its numbers on growl threat generation may not be accurate, but its doing a very good job of predicting just when I&#039;ll pull aggro off my pets. 

Threat generation using boar with charge is reported as being much less than pre patch. I haven&#039;t looked into the ordering of growl vs charge claw and bite but piggy holds aggro better when charge goes off, so its still getting some effect. 

This same hunter has a cat as well and I haven&#039;t noticed a large difference between them as far as their abilities to hold aggro post patch. They both seem to (and omen reports) less threat than pre-patch. I am definately being affected by the spirit mana regen nerf so have been pacing my shots a lot more carefully.  I will be looking to get a fair chunk more +spr on my gear now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Threat management is a problem for all classes.  It appears that some earlier posters don&#8217;t understand how threat works.</p>
<p>If you are in melee range, you need to generate 110% of the threat to steal aggro from the current tank.</p>
<p>If you are back at long range, you require 130% of the tanks threat to steal aggro.</p>
<p>Hunters and most casters need to stand away from the target!</p>
<p>If you need to steal aggro off someone, then they need to stop generating threat, and you need to get in close (or your pet needs to) to maximise your chances.</p>
<p>I have been using updated versions of omen to track threat generation before, during and after the 2.4 series patches. Its numbers on growl threat generation may not be accurate, but its doing a very good job of predicting just when I&#8217;ll pull aggro off my pets. </p>
<p>Threat generation using boar with charge is reported as being much less than pre patch. I haven&#8217;t looked into the ordering of growl vs charge claw and bite but piggy holds aggro better when charge goes off, so its still getting some effect. </p>
<p>This same hunter has a cat as well and I haven&#8217;t noticed a large difference between them as far as their abilities to hold aggro post patch. They both seem to (and omen reports) less threat than pre-patch. I am definately being affected by the spirit mana regen nerf so have been pacing my shots a lot more carefully.  I will be looking to get a fair chunk more +spr on my gear now.</p>
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		<title>By: Mania&#8217;s Arcania &#187; Patch 2.4: Pet Skill Inconsistencies</title>
		<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2008/04/07/hortus-says-growl-charge-aggro-is-a-bug/comment-page-2/#comment-17947</link>
		<dc:creator>Mania&#8217;s Arcania &#187; Patch 2.4: Pet Skill Inconsistencies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Apr 2008 19:49:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maniasarcania.com/?p=535#comment-17947</guid>
		<description>[...] thanks to Bratty for bringing this to my attention.   SHARETHIS.addEntry({ title: &quot;Patch 2.4: Pet Skill [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] thanks to Bratty for bringing this to my attention.   SHARETHIS.addEntry({ title: &#8220;Patch 2.4: Pet Skill [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bratty</title>
		<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2008/04/07/hortus-says-growl-charge-aggro-is-a-bug/comment-page-2/#comment-17945</link>
		<dc:creator>Bratty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Apr 2008 18:11:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maniasarcania.com/?p=535#comment-17945</guid>
		<description>http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=3641904623&amp;sid=1

Not only boards are broken. Finally got a blue admission (wow europe) to admit that they did break the pet spell-casting priority - effectively screwing any pet with a focus-sink like claw - and it&#039;s a BUG, not a &quot;change&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=3641904623&#038;sid=1" rel="nofollow">http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=3641904623&#038;sid=1</a></p>
<p>Not only boards are broken. Finally got a blue admission (wow europe) to admit that they did break the pet spell-casting priority &#8211; effectively screwing any pet with a focus-sink like claw &#8211; and it&#8217;s a BUG, not a &#8220;change&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Seidouyumi</title>
		<link>http://www.maniasarcania.com/2008/04/07/hortus-says-growl-charge-aggro-is-a-bug/comment-page-2/#comment-17942</link>
		<dc:creator>Seidouyumi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Apr 2008 16:54:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maniasarcania.com/?p=535#comment-17942</guid>
		<description>To Varsar-  Unfortunately this is the way of all things.  Some people like to explain, and others don&#039;t.  I&#039;d love it if they did explain things better though.

To Hilz- They haven&#039;t changed this yet.  What they have said is that they WILL change this in the future.  Your boar having aggro issues has nothing to do with this change, and quite frankly, there have been a lot of aggro issues.  I noticed it last night again.  I had mobs ignoring my pet and attacking me instead, and that was even with Growl.

To Webcricket- Pets have different applications.  It sort of happened naturally.  Certain pets are better at tanking than others.  Other pets do high levels of damage.  I think that Blizzard has been trying to avoid doing something that is going to have to happen.  Pets are going to have to be set up in clear deliniations.  Basically, Tanks, DPS&#039;ers, and Casters.

To the Group as a whole-  I had it happen again.  I had a mob bypass my pet and attack my hunter.  I didn&#039;t even heal, but I somehow pulled a second mob off my pet without trying.

I did find the Growl bug though.  Apparently, even though it isn&#039;t shown, Charge gives a one second universal cool down to the other skills.  Growl hits automatically right after the first swing, but it shouldn&#039;t.  It should hit after the UCD is over.  Because Growl is hitting at the same time as the first hit, this gives Growl it&#039;s extra charge.  THIS IS STILL THERE, btw.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Varsar-  Unfortunately this is the way of all things.  Some people like to explain, and others don&#8217;t.  I&#8217;d love it if they did explain things better though.</p>
<p>To Hilz- They haven&#8217;t changed this yet.  What they have said is that they WILL change this in the future.  Your boar having aggro issues has nothing to do with this change, and quite frankly, there have been a lot of aggro issues.  I noticed it last night again.  I had mobs ignoring my pet and attacking me instead, and that was even with Growl.</p>
<p>To Webcricket- Pets have different applications.  It sort of happened naturally.  Certain pets are better at tanking than others.  Other pets do high levels of damage.  I think that Blizzard has been trying to avoid doing something that is going to have to happen.  Pets are going to have to be set up in clear deliniations.  Basically, Tanks, DPS&#8217;ers, and Casters.</p>
<p>To the Group as a whole-  I had it happen again.  I had a mob bypass my pet and attack my hunter.  I didn&#8217;t even heal, but I somehow pulled a second mob off my pet without trying.</p>
<p>I did find the Growl bug though.  Apparently, even though it isn&#8217;t shown, Charge gives a one second universal cool down to the other skills.  Growl hits automatically right after the first swing, but it shouldn&#8217;t.  It should hit after the UCD is over.  Because Growl is hitting at the same time as the first hit, this gives Growl it&#8217;s extra charge.  THIS IS STILL THERE, btw.</p>
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