RFC: Raiding Pets
RFC stands for Request For Comments, and that’s exactly what this post is. I want to get your comments on hunter pets for raiding.
As many of you know, I am a very particular — and in some ways peculiar — sort of player. I am a strict soloer: I don’t group except under extraordinary circumstances, and I don’t raid or PvP. But while I am personally happy with my playstyle, it does unfortunately cut me off from a wide swath of hunter experience. So when a reader writes in to ask me for suggestions about raiding pets, I’m at a loss. I need your help.
Rather than just telling me what pet you might suggest, I thought it might be useful to break this topic down with the following questions:
- What is the role of a hunter pet in a raid?
- Are there differences between 10-man raids, 25-man raids and 40-man raids in terms of the role of a hunter pet?
- What pet stats (armor, health, DPS) are particularly important for raids?
- What active pet skills are most useful — or least useful — in raids?
- How about passive skills?
- Do you respec your pet for different raids?
- What other considerations go into choosing a raiding pet?
My main purpose here is to educate myself — and I’m really completely clueless about raiding, so please keep that in mind and explain any special terminology or concepts to me as clearly as you can. And I’ll do my best to understand this alien culture. *grin*
You are also free to e-mail me your comments if you’d rather not post them here.
As always, thanks for your help with this! I’d be lost without you guys.
(By the way, I figured I’d start with one of the biggest topics, but if this works out well then expect to see similar RFC posts for battleground, arenas, 5-man groups, and so forth.)
Table of Contents for Series: Requests For Comments
- RFC: Raiding Pets
- RFC: Arena Pets
- RFC: Battleground Pets
- RFC: Pet Resistances
52 Comments
Okay, I’ll try to keep it short.
* What is the role of a hunter pet in a raid?
Mainly to add to the Hunter’s DPS, but if the Hunter is Beastmastery specced, then it will increase the damage dealt by the whole party (not raid) by 3%, which is quite alot at later parts of the game.
* Are there differences between 10-man raids, 25-man raids and 40-man raids in terms of the role of a hunter pet?
No. Every encounter is different, and the 25 man often has more AOE damage dealt to the raid, but the pet has Avoidance so this AOE can be ignored. Some raiding instances are more pet friendly though, such as Serpentshire Cavern
* What pet stats (armor, health, DPS) are particularly important for raids?
Since your pet wont be doing any tanking, armor can be ignored. The sole purpose of the pet is to deal damage. And if the pet has trouble surviving, learn your pet ranks of Stamina, otherwise it’s fine. A high DPS modifier (read cats, ravagers, raptors etc) is the most important feature.
* What active pet skills are most useful — or least useful — in raids?
Bite, Claw, Gore, Lighting Breath, Screech are all very usefull. If your pet can be taught those spells, do it. Charge, Prowl, Dash and others are not as usefull, but they could come in handy once in a while.
* How about passive skills?
Avoidance is _the_ most important spell. Otherwise your pet will fry during some bosses AOE, since healers most of the time ignore hunter pets, and see them as a “free card”. Cobra Reflexes is a must aswell. The points that are over after Avoidance, Cobra Reflexes and various damage dealing abilities should be put in fairly equal amounts into stamin and resistances.
* Do you respec your pet for different raids?
This if very rarely required. Atm I can’t come up with any bosses that I know of that needs alot of resistances, but I’m sure there are alot of them. Resistances are the only reason to respeccing a pet.
* What other considerations go into choosing a raiding pet?
1. High damage modifier
2. Useful damage dealing abilities such as Claw, Bite, Gore or alike
3. Looks
Hope I was able to add something useful.
Greetings!
Well, to add to Korghals very usefull answers to your questions, there are a few more things to remember in raids.
First: Your pet must still fit to you and your playstile.
Second: The pet also has to fit to the raid. It took me a few month to convince my raidmembers that my owl is a very good raidpet, even if it can be bothersome for the tanks. By now they state they like the cooling breeze of those stately white wings. I choose to believe them ;)
Third: What can my pet contribute to the raid except pushing my own DPS? That’s why I prefer my owl, screech is almost always up und works as a second skorpid-sting.
So take a thorough look at your raid an match your pet to that. Many people in hand-to-hand combat may favor a wolf, a defense-tank who still gets spanked alot might just love that owl of yours.
Hope I could help a bit. And if I didn’t get an expresion right or made some other bad mistkae spelling whatsoever, please take my being German as excuse.
Greetings,
Kaena and Diomedes, white owl from Winterspring
Not a direct answer.. but here’s a fer-instance.
See WWS report of our last Gruul’s Lair raid:
http://wowwebstats.com/htopyuqye3qhs?s=7568-7993
The question was asked in guild: #1 BM hunter Rhea and #6 BM hunter Titan are similarly specced and geared. Why is Titan so low? The answer is two-fold.
Reason 1: Rhea’s pet is a kitty(Cheshire). Titan’s pet is a boar(Figaro). Kitty automatically out DPSes boar and adds more to Rhea’s DPS (significantly more).
Reason 2: Digging into the numbers, (http://wowwebstats.com/htopyuqye3qhs?ab=209) Rhea cast about 6x as many Mend Pets as Titan. In the actual fight against Gruul Titan cast 0 mend pets.
Other info of note: Phobos (#2 BM Hunter, similarly spec’d/geared to the two above) has a ravager pet. In the post-mortem he said that although his pet does more damage than Rhea’s pet, the ravager is also more fragile with less health and more likely to die in splash damage.
Nibuca
http://chicanery.fibergeek.com/
Here’s the skinny on pets in raids:
- Get a high DPS pet. This means cats, ravagers, scorpids, wind serpents, et al. Your Strider Clutchmother may be pretty, but any properly trained cat will make mincemeat out of it on the meters.
- Primarily, you want to max out your pet’s stam and DPS. Both Cobra Reflexes and Avoidance are a must, the former more than the latter. I find armor to generally be unimportant, as most of the damage your pet must soak will be magical and therefore unaffected by armor anyway. If your pet takes something like a cleavr, it’s going down no matter how much armor it has.
- Stack DPS abilities. Bite and claw (or stand-in abilities like Gore or Screech) are a must. Prowl, though technically increasing DPS, I’ve found to be useless and annoying as it slows your cat from getting close and doing damage sooner.
- If you want your pet to survive consistantly, BM spec is pretty important. Remember, stack stam, not armor.
- Remember that you must watch both the ranged and melee situations when your pet is out. This is important for fights like Maiden, Prince, Gruul, and Void Reaver.
That’s all I’ve got for now, as typing this out on a Wii is a pain in the butt.
One other thing to consider, Furious Howl on wolves. It’s a personal DPS-loss, but if you’re grouped with melee DPS it’s another boon to them. But if it’s you + other hunters / ranged, it’s not gonna help and you’re better off with a cat/raptor/ravager.
Here’s the deal, from what I have personally experienced from heavy raiding experience. Raptors, cats, and ravagers all do the exact same damage. Ravagers do a tiny, marginal amount more, but do lack in survivability. Surprisingly enough, I’ve found that as long as your pet can stay DPSing the mob/boss for the entire fight, Scorpids do similar/equal DPS as the other 3 families.
However… once you start getting higher in your crit and RAP (30+ unbuffed crit, reasonably high RAP for your spec), you’re critting so much that your pet can’t spend it’s focus fast enough. Unspent focus = wasted DPS, talent points, etc. For this reason, Wind Serpents become the highest DPS pet, simply because they have such an efficient focus dump. Coupled with its higher-end base DPS, it becomes the highest DPS pet.
Passive skills, just make sure your pet knows Avoidance Rank 2 and Cobra Reflexes. Some may argue that Cobra reflexes isn’t good for BM hunters because it results in lower Kill Commands, but overall it increases the pet’s DPS quite substantially, according to Cheeky’s spreadsheet.
I neglected to mention that my entire previous comment is based on the assumption that you have 2 points in Go for the Throat.
What is the role of a hunter pet in a raid?
Honestly, it depends on the pet and your spec. I have heard of survival hunters with windserpents for the ranged attacks or something else as mainly a bodyguard while they do their survival thing. Others, like myself, a BM, use pets to enhance the raid itself (Wolf for furious howl, owl for screech, etc). Others prefer a solid dps pet for added boom boom. It’s all in your own personal style, because any benefit is a good benefit in my book.
Are there differences between 10-man raids, 25-man raids and 40-man raids in terms of the role of a hunter pet?
Honestly? In 25 and 40 man raids, pets die alot or are pretty much overshadowed. Again, a beneficial pet like a wolf or owl helps alot.
What pet stats (armor, health, DPS) are particularly important for raids?
I usually use avoidance, attack speed increase (yes I know it is less dps but it is more crit chance on the attacks), stamina, growl, and then whatever the pet’s special is. I do all but the last two levels of stamina and use it to specialize my pet for the raid instance. Let’s say I was going to go Molten Core… Fire Resist of about 4 levels, and the rest in armor…
What active pet skills are most useful — or least useful — in raids?
Active? Furious Howl, Screech, any Poisons, and Windserpent for the armor ignore are skills to consider.
How about passive skills?
Avoidance, avoidance, avoidance… and avoidance.
Do you respec your pet for different raids?
See my answer to stats above.
What other considerations go into choosing a raiding pet?
I have an owl, a wolf, and a boar at present. The boar is for soloing. the Owl and Wolf are for raiding. I like the owl for smaller raids (5-10) and the wolf for the larger raids due to the effect of their specials… God’s I wish they would give gorillas a punch (claw) or a charge ability… I would toss the pig and go back to my beloved gorilla in a heartbeat.
I always choose a high dps pet with a decent amount of hp, like a ravager or cat. For certain instances and bosses, certain skills are a must, ie Avoidance is a must for Shade of Aran. Personally, I really like Cobra Reflexes on all my pets, just a preference; I have been using Broken Tooth since I first saw his unique attack speed on Petopia. ;)
Pre-BC resistance trained pets were essential for instances like MC/BWL or AQ40. Since then I haven’t really found a need for training pets with specific resistances. Now I prefer training it with Rank 11 Great Stamina and the highest Natural Armor I can afford.
I never raided with my hunter, but I liked to put 90 of each resistance on my pet to help with magic damage. 90 isn’t a huge amount of resistance but I like to think it helped a bit. I raided on my warlock, and I noticed that the favorite pet of the hunters in the guild was a windserpent. (They all had the blue windserpent from netherstorm, ahaha.)
Hunters are DPS and sometimes extra CC. Wolves are the way to go- as they have furious howl. Of course- im biased towards wolves anyway. :)
One of my preferences when selecting a pet was the diet.
Since my GF is a Mage I wanted a pet that could eat bread, so I don’t have to buy food all the time. And when she isn’t online I wanted to be able to fead my pet fish, wich i can get myself.
At lvl 60 I had a bear for PvE and a Wind Serpent for PvP, but since TBC I almost exclusively use the Wind Serpent. My Blixten eats both bread and fish, plus he is a High DPS-pet.
What is the role of a hunter pet in a raid?
- The pet is used for DPS only. I’m BM so the rest of the raid benefits from the talent Ferocious Inspiration for more DPS as well.
Are there differences between 10-man raids, 25-man raids and 40-man raids in terms of the role of a hunter pet?
- Every boss demands another tactic. Some are pet friendly because they don’t get much damage or are not affected by certain boss abilities. In other fights you have to pay attention and pull your pet into and out of combat the whole fight. And sometimes you can better just dismiss your pet because it dies much too often.
What pet stats (armor, health, DPS) are particularly important for raids?
- Armor is not important. The pet wil never stand up to raid mobs. For me, health is most important and DPS comes secondary.
What active pet skills are most useful — or least useful — in raids?
- All active skills that increase damage like Bite, Claw, Gore, Lightningbreath. Dash/Dive/Warp is situational in case your pet needs to be pulled out of (or into) a fight quickly. Screech is nice, but don’t just send your pet into a group of mobs that the tank has just begun to build aggro on, because your pet will pull aggro and die. I don’t recommend DoT skills because they can break crowd control if you’re not paying attention. Furious Howl is ok, but only really usefull if you have melee DPS classes in your raid.
How about passive skills?
- Avoidance is a must as well a Cobra Reflexes (for Ferocious Inspiration proc). For the rest Great Stamina and the appropiate Resistance.
Do you respec your pet for different raids?
- Resistance is the only reason to respec a pet. Since I’m only raiding Karazhan I don’t need to respec it.
What other considerations go into choosing a raiding pet?
- I raid with my Tallstrider (Strider Clutchmother). The only consideration I put into it is because it’s a beautiful and rarely seen pet :-)
Korghal’s comment is very helpful, but unlike him, I won’t keep it short ;p You asked for information. I’ll give as much as I can.
* What is the role of a hunter pet in a raid?
- To provide DPS. Pets can have different functions elsewhere, but in a raid, extra armor or health is pretty much a waste of time. If you want to “be all you can be” you bring a pet with a high damage modifier. Ravagers are probably king for this. Cats and raptors are good too, as are owls. Spiders would be if they had more skills to bring to the table.
I have to disagree with everyone who’ve been recommending Wolves. I love Wolves for their looks. I’m one of the lucky few with a ghost puppy and I’d love to raid with him (and sometimes do, the benefit of being in a casual guild) But as Furious Howl was not given a new rank for The Burning Crusade, the buff it provides is small beer in a raid scenario, and is easily offset by the extra damage an actual DPS pet would provide. They also have no focus dump, which I’ll expand on later, but basically you want to convert focus to damage as quickly as possible, and if you have Go for the Throat talented, which most raiding Hunters do, you’ll see a lot of wasted focus.
* Are there differences between 10-man raids, 25-man raids and 40-man raids in terms of the role of a hunter pet?
- I have only experienced 10-man raids, but I have to say, I doubt it. There may be some particular encounters that would benefit from a respec, but not particular raids, and certainly not because of how many people are in said raid.
* What pet stats (armor, health, DPS) are particularly important for raids?
- DPS. Always
* What active pet skills are most useful — or least useful — in raids?
- Some kind of focus dump skill that generates a nice chunk of damage. Gore is about the best possible example. Claw is also good. Once you get beyond 25% crit, Lightning Breath is superb, which is why you see a lot of SV Hunters raiding with one (I do so myself) Screech is also another nice one even though it doesn’t actually deal damage. The most common one is obviously Claw. It’s important however not to have more than one trained and active at the same time for they kinda cancel each other out and you won’t do any more damage than if you just had one.
Then you should be looking at your particular species’ damage skills. Bite etc It’s nearly always best to have this in addition to your focus dump. For example, a Cat with both Bite and Claw will do more DPS than one who just has Claw, even though Claw will go off continuously for as long as your pet has focus. The skills with a cooldown often have better individual damage. The only exception to this I can think of is Windserpents, where Lightning Breath is king. To the point where a lot of SV Hunters (again, myself included) do not train any other damage skills.
I personally think a speed boost such as Dash or Dive is essential. Others may disagree, but for me, the sooner a pet gets to the target, the sooner he or she can start mauling.
Least useful is Cower. It’s a complete waste of training points in any scenario I can think of. If your pet is pulling aggro in a raid. Sack your tanks! Other than that, as I mentioned above, Furious Howl isn’t a bad skill. Just underpowered.
Somewhat surprisingly considering how useful it is for soloing, Growl is pretty much a waste of time. If your tank goes down, or loses aggro, your pet will not be anywhere near high enough on the threat list to pull aggro off a squishy. However, unless you have 4 active damage skills, there’s no harm in training it. just make sure it’s off autocast.
* How about passive skills?
-Cobra Reflexes is a must, as is the highest rank of Avoidance. Natural Armor, while great for soloing, isn’t much use here unless your pet is getting physically beat on. Which it shouldn’t be.
Some favour spending the points in Stamina. I don’t. I find it too much in the way of points investment for the actual return. What I usually do is get rank 3 in all resists, and dump the leftovers in Stamina unless I need a particular resistance. (For example, if people still raided MC, I’d be speccing for max fire resist)
* Do you respec your pet for different raids?
Personally, no. As I said above, my pets generally have pretty high resists anyway. I’d only do it if the whole instance required one particular resist, or if we were only doing one particular boss that did. Respeccing pets is cheap enough to do this as often as you want. It’s just I don’t want to do it very often.
* What other considerations go into choosing a raiding pet?
Pre the patch where pets went to the back of the target, I couldn’t raid with a flying pet as our tank hates the wings in his face. Of course my Owl would be helping him more than pretty much any other pet I could bring due to Screech’s debuff, but if it’s spoiling his enjoyment of the game and affecting his playing, I’d rather get something that doesn’t do so. After the patch though, I’m bringing Tesla (my Windserpent) and the rogues can just deal with it! ;p
Many hunters and guilds have seen pets in raids as a hidden danger, because this is where the difference between the huntards, noobs, good hunters and expert hunters is made clear. It doesn’t matter if you can kite a Devilsaur from Ungoro all the way to Winterspring, it doesn’t matter if you crit with every shot… if you can’t control your pet during a raid you may as well leave it at home.
Pets in raids require the hunter to pay attention to both his own fight and the pet’s fight. A good raid will have healing on the pet whenever available, but occasionally you have to throw a mend pet or call the pet back to your side. Your pet will be the last on the healing priority list. You will also have to juggle growl/cower. ALWAYS keep your pet on Passive when in a raid, and keep growl off and cower on unless you -want- it to gain aggro.
What is the role of a hunter pet in a raid?
The pet’s role is assisting the hunter’s role. That means DPS with a bit of Crowd Control, off tanking and clothy rescue when needed.
With solo bosses your pet can go all-out on damage. When a fight is with multiple mobs the pets are sent out to deal with the adds first, often assisting an off-tank.
If a cloth-caster (priest, mage, lock – in that order) gets in trouble the pet can help get the aggro off of the Player or at least keep the mob busy until a tank can pick it up. This is one of those cases where you can turn on the growl and use every aggro pulling ability it might have (e.g. BM Intimidation).
A BM pet also has a group buff function when the hunter has the Ferocious Inspiration talent (1-3% damage buff for 10 secs). It activates when the pet scores a critical hit and combined with Ferocity and Frenzy it may keep the buff going until the fight ends (which can be up to 10 minutes).
Are there differences between 10-man raids, 25-man raids and 40-man raids in terms of the role of a hunter pet?
As the raid group gets larger, your own role gets smaller and small mistakes are less likely to cause a wipe. It also makes your pet focus more on the “DPS the big guy” role, often delegating it to a “hunter DoT”.
What pet stats (armor, health, DPS) are particularly important for raids?
DPS, DPS, and more DPS. Armour can help with off-tanking, but that won’t happen much in raids because the mobs hit really hard. Where they hit like a truck in 5-mans, in a raid instance they hit like a train… 2 hits and you’ll have a dead pet, especially in the Burning Crusade raids.
Active skills
Bite, Claw, Gore, Lightning Breath, Poison spit, and Scorpid Poison are all extra single target damage and excellent for raids. The poison and lightning abilities may be useless when a mob is immune to poison or nature damage, but those tend to be few.
Fire Breath and Thunderstomp are nice, but keep an eye on adds that may be in the range of these abilities. Extra adds are deadly in raids.
Dash and dive are useful for fights in large places like caverns and halls and can close distances quickly even halfway through a fight, when switching targets or when picking up runners.
Furious Howl (Wolf) and Screech (Birds) are often welcome in a raid, but many tanks and rogues hate having a cloud of feathers in their face… give ‘em time to get used to it (or go Bestial Wrath a few times and hear the shouts of wonder through Teamspeak or Ventrillo, and they’ll quickly stop whining when the pet is not a huge red cloud of feathers *evil grin*).
Charge and Prowl are opener attacks and will often only be used once in a fight.
Warp and Shell Shield are pretty much useless, neither has an effect the pet should need since the pet should NOT have aggro nor be tanking solo.
Be careful when combining Active skills, because the different cooldowns may cause one skill to eat up all available focus (e.g. Bite & Claw = 1 bite only). To make sure your pet has enough focus to burn, take the BM Bestial Discipline and/or MM Go for the Throat talents.
Passive skills
Avoidance and Rank 3 Resistances are what keeps your pet alive, with those your pet can often survive better than you in resistance gear. MC Flame packs? No more than a nuisance (‘though a direct hit still hurts). Maiden’s Aura? It tickles. Onyxia’s phase 3 Lava bath? Give it Bestial Wrath and the pet will teach the big bad dragon a lesson.
You will need a minimum of rank 3 resistances, if you have points left you can put them in extra resistance ranks but they don’t add much point for point. Only take rank 4 or 5 if your pet is to become a specialist resist pet or if you have points left over.
Cobra Reflexes is nice to have, and with all pets I have seen so far the total DPS actually increases. It also helps keep that Ferocious Inspiration up (more hits = more changes to crit).
Stamina and Armour are useful as a band-aid to balance out a species penalty, but in raiding DPS comes first.
Pet respecs
I raid with my cat Asha, and she’s my all purpose pet. She has Rank 3 in all resistances, Avoidance, Cobra Reflexes, Dash, Claw, Growl and Cower and that works well in raids, instances, and solo fights.
Some people preferred to deck out one pet for one type of resistance fight (e.g. full Fire for MC and full Nature for Zul’Gurub), but the raids in Burning Crusade tend to switch resistance needs between fights. Since there is no Stable Master outside Kara, it can be a tad irritating if the hunter wants to switch pets every few fights.
Choosing a raiding pet
One: take a pet YOU like! I can’t stress this enough. Every pet can help in a raid, but if the hunter is gnashing his keyboard because he hates the looks of his pet or hates the sound his pet makes then you have an unhappy raider, which becomes an inattentive raider, that often turns into a raider that is kicked out of the group. Raiding must remain fun and your pet should be part of that fun!
Two: What pets are there already? No problem if you have 5 hunters all with cats, but perhaps one wants to bring his owl along to see what happens to his DPS and the raid in general. Please, no cookie cutter hunters and no cookie cutter pets… it’s boring.
Three: In bigger groups with several hunters it might be an idea to have different coloured pets even if you all bring the same species. It makes life easier when buffing or healing if you can simply say “extra heals on the black cat, please” when there is only one black cat in the raid instead of 5.
Other pet raiding tips
Pally buffs: The more the better, but if you must choose then grab Might (Attack power), Salvation (Threat reduction) if needed and last Kings (Stats). Light is just a nice extra healing -if- a pet gets a heal and Wisdom (mana regen) is useless for pets. Pets and hunters can have different buffs, but training a pally takes more time than training a pet. Pally buffs are handy for bossfights, but lay off the pally and let her catch her breath when fighting trash. If the pally whines about reagents for pet buffs, bring a stack of candles, remember the price you paid and your arrow bill and tell the pally the difference. Pally buffs are annoying to do with the short timers and all, but you spend way more in ammo (if you don’t then shame on you and stop being a pennypincher).
Food: Don’t bring one stack of pet food, bring several! Your pet –will- die sometime in the raid… thank the gods of luck and kiss all healers in the raid if she doesn’t. If your pet is a bread eater, then ask an extra stack from the mage and use that instead.
Sporeling Snacks (STA) are nice to have for the longer fights. The recipe can be “bought” from the Sporregar in Zangarmarsh and requires 310 cooking.
Kibbler’s Bits (STR) can be made with the recipe from the cooking quests in Shattrath (found in both barrels of fish and crates of meat). It requires 300 cooking and this recipe alone should be a reason for any hunter to do these quests.
Bits and Snacks do NOT stack and are USED like a potion or trinket. A buff should appear under the pet portrait that looks like a piece of cheese.
Kill Command: You can fight two targets at once (you on one and pet on other), but kill command automatically targets -your- mob… baaaaad pet! To solve this and make sure your pet hits his own target, use this macro for KC:
#showtooltip Kill Command
/cast [target=pettarget,nodead,exists] Kill Command
Useful Addons
ANY Threat meter: Omen and KTM are the top two and often required for raids anyway, but they work when you solo with the pet too. I personally prefer Omen. Make your pet’s bar a bright green colour and your own something easily visible too and you can see in a split second if you or your pet are about to be on the floor whining in pain.
GFW_FeedOMatic – pet feeding made easy and it will prevent your pet from snacking on your raid foods.
Tactics
Know the raid’s tactics for a fight, and keep an eye out on special pet tactics (if any). Most pet tactics are simply “target and burn it down”, but sometimes you have to call a pet back at certain times.
The recent AI change that makes pets fight from behind a target is a godsend, but you still have to pay attention to where your pet is. A pet in the wrong spot can still mean a dead pet or an annoyed team and possibly a wipe.
Many fights are now pet friendly, because pets tend to be immune to many nasty boss abilities that require players to stand still or keep their distance from others. Other abilities that tend to be area-of-effect-nastiness or one-shot-one-kill can hit your pet, but better a dead pet than a dead player.
If you are BM specced then be ready to res that partner of yours… you didn’t spec BM for nothing.
Tsani & Asha, Illuminutties/Republic, Cenarius.
*Note on Tsani’s post*
Kill Command I think no longer does what you’re targeting. It has the pet do the extra attack to it’s target IF IT HAS ONE, otherwise it’ll go for the target YOU have.
I’m not raiding so I can’t speak in detail, but I am getting started into heroics so I can make two recommendations.
First is get improved revive. The fast rez lets me get my kitty back in the action mid fight, and in a boss fight where you’re assigned to adds you need your pet. I stole the two points for it out of thick hide. Your pet won’t be tanking anything except in a real emergency.
Second, look for the leggings of beast mastery. http://www.wowhead.com/?item=31328 Its a world drop, I paid 1175 for mine. Best piece of gear I’ve gotten my hands on. You loose some stats but my cat hits hard and actually has a little tanking power. I’m sure at some point down the raiding tree you’ll end up dropping it to complete your tiered set bonus, but for a new 70 its worth it.
Ralowae and BlackTooth, Zangermarsh
I’ll disagree with several posters here and say always, always spec pet for resistances for the specific raid instance. BRK recommends Rank 3, with supporting math to show diminishing return for points spent after that. With Avoidance rank 2, Cobra Reflexes, and the basic owie move of the pet (claw/bite/gore) this leaves enough points to max out Great Stamina as well. I suspect BM hunters can get away with not putting on resistances because their pets can take more damage to begin with, but I’m SV; I give my pet every edge I can.
For raids you do not need your pet to tank, you do not need your pet to draw aggro, you need your pet to turn things into hamburger. High DPS always. This may mean a specific raid pet instead of your usual soloing/five-man pet, or more than one specific raid pet. I’m currently (reluctantly) training a wind serpent for the considerable extra DPS with GFFT/high crit rate, but Lightning Breath is nature damage and therefore situational. I’ll still be taking my cat to SSC because of it. A raider is always going to need to have a cat/ravager/raptor on hand for plain physical damage. MORE STABLE SLOTS NOW BLIZZ TIRED OF ASKINGahem. I mean…
Oh, and finally, I don’t care if you’re MM or SV: any hunter who runs in a raid without a pet is an idiot. Any raid that tells you to run without a pet is made of idiots. Even the weakest pet is a fire-and-forget dot you can have up almost all the time with almost no effort. Why pass up a free DPS boost?
And yes, I know that last paragraph, considering what blog this is, is preaching to the converted :)
Mania - I sent you an email regarding pet choice a few days back… did you get it or are the filter Gods stopping me at the gate again?
I already knew a lot of this, but this has still got to be one of the most useful discussions ever on this site — are there comparable run downs for grouping, soloing and PvP pets, just so I can play compare/contrast with my choices?
Like Mania, I’m am almost entirely solo. period. I have some alts that belong to a very good guild, and have on very very rare occasion participated in Raids - but it’s not my idea of fun.
However, as Ringo mentioned, this is one of the most enlightening threads I’ve read in a long time. A bit of insight into the picking of pets for whatever the purpose is good - I learned now that I want to try a windserpent. Other than looking interesting I’ve *never* wanted one as a pet. I started on cats and raptors and worked them up through lvl 70. I did use the Sewer Beast for a while, good for close quarters cause you can *see past it*. but I went back to the raptor and the cat. When BC came out I snagged ravagers and haven’t looked back.
Now, digging deeper into the purpose of pets, and what each skill and talent does for them, I have a new point of view and will be rethinking a bit. Another advantage (tried it last night on my lvl 40 hunter) skilling increases for pets is very much more viable - took the ghost saber from 21 to 29 in about 90 minutes. not trying hard either. Now I can check out other pets without having to spend the next 6 months working them up.
windserpent huh? interesting.
Thank you to all who have been posting, this is very enlightening for me. Not enough to make me want to PvP or Raid, but armed with some good concepts, I won’t hesitate if I’m asked to participate in a raid now. thanks
Lot of good posts above. Some poor ones from people who don’t really have the experience or the figures/proof to back their claims up.
Easiest way to raid as a hunter your pet = 1 giant dot
Regardless of spec, if you’re beastmaster, marksman, survival or hybrid. You must, use your pet for raiding and instances.
1. What is the role of a hunter pet in a raid?
Pure and simply your pets role is DPS. Not to tank, not to save clothies. (slap tank for loosing aggro or clothie for over healing/damaging) Best pets for this are Ravager, Cat & Raptor. All 3 have the highest damage modifiers and the Cat and Ravager are IDENTICAL for damage and raiding skills. (You should not be wasting points in stealth on your raid pet)
At end game you’re capped on de-buffs (25 i think) that a boss can have on them so screech might be taking the place of something much more important.
If you have set aside a raiding pet, remember to check what boss you’re fighting and switch resistances for the fight. Since you can’t feed your pet in combat you want to max the pets survivability.
Are there differences between 10-man raids, 25-man raids and 40-man raids in terms of the role of a hunter pet?
10 man, 25 man, 40 man. Its all about the dps baby.
What active pet skills are most useful — or least useful — in raids?
Hmm for active its gore, bite, claw, lightning breath and scorpid sting.
least useful = everything else as none of the others are dps buffers. Furious Howl has no tbc level up so its useless compared to damage a pet will do with bite claw etc.
How about passive skills?
Avoidance, Cobra Reflexes and the resistances appropriate to the bosses/trash you’ll be fighting.
Do you respec your pet for different raids?
If you want the utmost best chance of survival then you probably should. I keep forgetting however :)
What other considerations go into choosing a raiding pet?
Truthfully?
well for me its a case of picking the one of the high damagers then picking a pet that looks cool. I loved having Echeyakee at lvl 70 on a pvp server but now its not as fun cos anyone can get him easily.
I prefer a challenge to my pets and personally have to have the rare ones. (my 3 pets are Echeyakee white lion, once was a horde only quest. Arash-ethis White windserpent, non caster stats and …. my ghost wolf :)
Don’t get something to be different like a bear, spider or warpstalker cos for raiding….they suck!
There is plenty of pets out there that are different, it just depends if you have the patience to hunt the rare ones down and level up the low ones.
What pet stats (armor, health, DPS) are particularly important for raids?
here’s an example for a cat/raptor for doing Void Reaver
Pet Level: 70
Pet Loyalty: 6
Points Available: 350
Bite - rank 8 (25pts)
Claw - rank 8 (25pts)
Great Stamina - rank 11 (215pts)
Arcane Resist - rank 3 (45pts)
Avoidance - rank 2 (25pts)
Cobra Reflexes - rank 1 (15pts)
Total spent: 350
even with avoidance he’ll still eat void spheres getting thrown about with the ground pound thing he does
Since I have never truly done raids, nor could I possibly say something that has not been said, I would just like to comment: I think your fans are interested in these kinds of posts and want to see more of them. I know I would.
Amazing feedback from everyone.
What is the role of a hunter pet in a raid? Pulling mobs by swinging wide when the Hunter is hugging a wall. LOL - Just kidding. I second the general consensus here that a Hunter’s Pet is there for DPS. In most end-game raids, pets are not capable of tanking a mob, and certainly not a boss unless they have the attention of 4+ healers and those heals will pull aggro from the pet damn near instantly.
Are there differences between 10-man raids, 25-man raids and 40-man raids in terms of the role of a hunter pet? I believe so. 25 and 40-man Raids have much stronger mobs and thus, that is where a pet becomes a DPS-only utility. However, I have seen a Hunter’s pet (MM spec, btw) tank one of the adds on Moroes in Kara. Since I am new to my current guild, I was not there to see it, but a BM hunter’s Bear Pet tanked one of the adds on Hydross the Unstable in SSC. Again, he had heals behind him, but because he had the proper resist spec, it wasn’t as bad as it could have been. Or so I am told, anyway. :-)
What pet stats (armor, health, DPS) are particularly important for raids? I think Concrete nailed it. Bite, Claw, Stamina, Avoidance, Cobra Reflexes (optional), and in most cases, the proper resist spec for the majority of the fights you will face that evening. Though, if your pet will ever be expected to tank/off-tank, I’d consider giving some armor buffs if possible.
What active pet skills are most useful — or least useful — in raids? Cower is fantastic for BM Hunters whose pets may pull aggro. Growl is the least useful IMHO unless of course your pet has a tanking role. If in fact you DO have a pet tank assignment, Turtles rock with Shell Shield, but they don’t hold aggro as much as other pets so when the DPS begins, there is a good chance the mob will pull.
How about passive skills? These depend on your raid composition. For instance, since a Scorpid’s poison is nature damage, and Enhancement Shaman get an ability that increases nature damage, they may be a great choice. Furious Howl would be great if you have allot of Melee DPS in the raid, plus it stacks rather nicely with Ferocious Inspiration if the hunter is a BM hunter. The rest of the passive abilities are more hit-and-miss in my opinion.
Do you respec your pet for different raids? Always. Just as a hybrid class changes gear, or a mage specs from fire to frost, a pet should always be respecced to fit the needs of the Hunter and his raiding party.
What other considerations go into choosing a raiding pet? These are the three main considerations when bringing a pet to a raid.
(1.) Most amount of DPS possible.
(2.) Desired Utilization (Role).
(3.) Chance of Survivability.
It should be on the raid leader to tell you your expected role prior to the raid, and then you should stick to that role and base your pet of choice on that roll.
I just wanted to throw in a comment on using Prowl with a raiding cat–I generally don’t bother to train Bite on my cat because having him burn through all his focus spamming Claw is just fine with me. I do use Prowl, however, not because of the DPS increase but because of the utility. I’ve found myself using it most in two situations:
1. “Oops, forgot to put my pet away before I jumped down.” Solution: Hit Prowl. Cat walks by mobs, doesn’t aggro, everyone’s happy. Similarly, if you’re trying to sneak through a tight space, putting your cat into Prowl means he can trail around behind you with his wacky pathing issues and not aggro the boss or anything else in the area.
2. “Can you tell how many of X thing are in that room?” If you don’t have a rogue or a druid, a cat pet with Prowl + Eyes of the Beast is the next best thing.
I actually end up using Eyes of the Beast a lot in raids, and even more in five-mans–generally to fine-tune pet positioning, get a pet to follow me more closely (like using EotB + the Stay setting to jump it off a cliff before I follow it down so it doesn’t run around looking for a ramp), kite a stray mob (or decoy a group away from the party–some groups will aggro Tidewalker in SSC prematurely to move his murloc packs to a more manageable distance, and I could see a pet + EotB being useful here), detonate mines (in Blood Furnace–seriously I do use my pet as the group “bomb squad” for defusing mines away from the party), and–once, when Nemesis tanked Quagmirran in normal Slave Pens, I used EotB to get him to turn Quaggy away from the party during an acid spray.
Wow! I didn’t expect such great responses! Yeah, there are some differences of opinion on the details, but I’m learning an immense amount about the basic underlying principles. And everyone is being so specific and clear in their explanations that even a newb like me is getting it. :> Thanks, guys! We will definitely have to do more of these in the future.
In the meantime, keep your answers coming — I’m taking notes furiously over here. :>
It’s just because we all love you Mania. You provide a wonderful resource for us and when we get the chance to give something back to you - we do :)
(I have a stupid question and maybe this isn’t the right place to ask but — what’s “Focus” / “Focus Dump”? All my wolf has Bite at the moment, so maybe I haven’t even encountered these issues.)
I’ve got a short ‘focus dump‘ explanation up on Petopia. It just scratches the surface, but it’s a start.
For a while I always launched my pet into action on any battle or raid, but with my current spec, I favor just leaving my pet by my side for the most part since I am Marks, because of a talent I have to maximize my damage over all. The talent I’m talking about is Focused Fire. It may be a measly 2% more damage, but I have out dps’d a lot of people in many raids.
1. Hunters’ pets’ are for added DpS. And it’s about your choice.
2. No, there really isn’t.
3. All pet stats are useful in raids.
4. Damage dealing attacks. Growl is not useful in raids.
5. Cobra Reflexes and Avoidance are good. Avoidance is very nice.
6. No, I don’t.
7. I go for high DpS, for raids and looks.
* What is the role of a hunter pet in a raid?
–It depends on the spec of the Hunter. Ideally, a pet should add to a Hunter’s DPS; however, in certain encounters, it is actually more cost efficient for certain Hunters (specifically Marks and Survival spec) to leave their weaker pet out of the fight so as to save mana from Mending (or, at worst, Reviving) the pet constantly. For Beastmastery Hunters like myself, pet selection is actually a crucial part in any raid, and must be carefully balanced for raid utility as well as my own personal DPS.
* Are there differences between 10-man raids, 25-man raids and 40-man raids in terms of the role of a hunter pet?
–Absolutely. Certain encounters require different pets for the various situations; just as each boss in an instance is unique, so too, must be your (and your pet’s) strategy. For instance (pun intended), a pet assaulting the Shade of Aran in Karazhan would benefit from large amounts of Fire, Frost, and Arcane resist, whereas in a fight with the first boss in Heroic Arcatraz, Shadow Resist is imperative. Similarly, these pets would not need armor to survive the magic AoE’s of these bosses, but fights like that with Prince Malchezaar, who deals heavy physical damage, would demand a pet with large amounts of armor.
* What pet stats (armor, health, DPS) are particularly important for raids?
–Depending on your spec (or personal preference), your pet should specialize in either an offensive or defensive role. Beastmastery Hunters tend to spec their pets offensively to maximize DPS. However, Marksman and Survival Hunters may benefit more from a more resilient, utilitarian pet. Primarily, for a defensive role, health is an all-around plus, with armor/resistances taking a backseat depending on the individual fights you’ll be facing. For DPS, the skills you teach your pet are crucial.
* What active pet skills are most useful — or least useful — in raids?
–Personally, I keep a “raiding” pet, a “soloing” pet, and a “PvP” pet for each specific purpose. Raiding and PvP pets don’t need Growl–there’s no need to draw aggro to your pet in a raid, and Growl is useless in PvP–and so can use another skill in place of it. Similarly, the pet itself may lend itself to certain playstyles. For example, Cats make excellent raiding pets with their high DPS, and ability to learn Bite, Claw, Dash, and Prowl; all these skills make them excellent offensive pets. Wolves, however, with their naturally higher armor and Furious Howl ability, have naturally higher survivability than cats, and add to overall raid utility, thus making them perfect defensive pets.
* How about passive skills?
–Avoidance is crucial in any fight, as a general rule. Most bosses will be indirectly damaging your pet with AoE-type attacks, which Avoidance easily and masterfully mitigates. As for Great Stamina, Natural Armor, and the Resistances, these should be tailored based on what content you expect to be raiding. Read up on the bosses, and spec your pet accordingly.
* Do you respec your pet for different raids?
–Again, absolutely. Having a pet with 180 Fire, Arcane, and Frost Resistance is great for Shade of Aran, but won’t protect him from Prince Malchezaar’s deadly physical axes.
* What other considerations go into choosing a raiding pet?
–Mostly, the pet itself leads largely into the role it will play. As a general rule, Beastmasters should have a more offensive pet, such as a Cat, Ravager, or Raptor to maximize their DPS. Marksman and Survival Hunters would most likely aid the raid more with a Wolf pet that deals slightly less damage, but helps out the raid with Furious Howl.
well it is interesting what has been said so far , most agree (which makes a change) on the basic rules , it looks like enough has been said to create a simple guide for raiding with pets.
things like BM hunters go with high dps pets and use avoidance and cobra reflexes and if you have a high crit then windserpents come into their own ? it seems focus dump is important , and i agree .
some disagree on cower i guess that is a personal choice , myself i hate it as my first hunter had it for ages before i was told by a good hunter what exactly it was doing , hehe growl and cower both on and hello miss melee hunter.
with MM and SV hunters it looks like the pets with howl and screech are better , although i do not raid or do instances rarely i can understand that ,
the resists it looks like it all depends on where you are and what boss , on a personal level although i do not raid i tend to give my pets the minimum training and if they get serious damage i use the spare points to buff them , i rarely use the points in health/armour unless i am grinding melee mobs , and i tend to reset my pets training on my 70 hunter on a regular basis, although i do have 3 pets all set a little different with resists and other buffs , and i find just by picking a different pet their natural abilities like extra health armour attack power come into their own.
my guess is in a raid things like what spec comes first as BM is more for a dps pet than MM or SV , but i would think if three or more hunters are together with melee classes then all 3 types of pet would be best so the whole group gets the buffs from the howl and screech .
i hope this thread is sorted out into a basic guide on pets and raids/instances as it looks like most that do raids agree on pets and what they need
Well the point with the resistances.
I prefer to not teach any resistance that is not needed, in fact that mean you only need Arcane resistance for VoidReaver as long as you don´t have the first T5 pieces bonus. The next Boss coming up where you need resistance ist Mother Shazrah in Black Temple, even with the T5 bonus you need maximum Shadow resistance, a bit Fire resistance could be helpful when dealing with Illidan but even with Maximum Fire resistance will your pet probably not survive the fight.
Every other Boss is doable without resistance for your pet, well some people recommend Fire resistance for Alar but your pet isn´t a great help here, just use it on Alar in Phase 2 and it wouldn´t take so much Dmg, the Adds will explode wenn they die which means no Melee (including Pets) is allowed to be there when it happens ;)
Hmm the rest from SSC/TK don´t have much AoE where you could think a bit resistance would help, maybe a bit Shadow resistance for a few Bosses in Mount Hyal but when you are raiding there, Black Temple wont be far away so you better train max Shadow resistance already.
Every point not needed for Avoidance, Cobra Relfexes, Resistance and Active Skills (Dash for Cats, Ravagers, Raptors;Claw for Cats, Raptors;Bite for Cats, Ravagers, Raptors and Gore for Ravagers) would be most useful in Stamina, as the most Dmg your pet will take is magical and Armor wont be a help there.
To use as much Points as possible i have trained my raiding Ravager:
Bite Rank 9
Gore Rank 9
Dash Rank 3
Avoidance Rank 2
Cobra Reflexes Rank 1
Shadow Resistance Rank 5
Fire Resistance Rank 2
Great Stamina 7
Natural Armor 2
—————-
2 Points left
Dash is really helpful, not only to have your pet as soon as possible on the boss. When you are pretty sure that it´s going to be a wipe, call your Pet back with manual activated Dash and Dismiss it, then search a quite Corner where you think no AoE Spell will hit you and Feign Death.
Sure a lot of Bosses are making ist difficult to survive via Feign Death, but it´s still possible in most cases.
oh, and Dash could also be used to call your Pet back for avoiding further Dmg and healing it before it would die.
Gotta disagree with all the posts that say “your pet is just there for DPS”. BRK has a great video during which his pet off-tanks the Murmur fight in Kara, keeping one of the adds under control until the raid got around to its turn to die and then saving the squishies when another broke Shackle. :) Also, two of my friends used their pets as off-tanks in a 5-man when they had an inexperienced and undergeared tank learning the run - after a couple of occasions where the tank lost aggro and things got painful, they put Growl back on and the pets stayed second and third on the threat meter, picking up the mobs every time the tank lost it.
MelRedCap - (1.) Murmur is not in Karazhan, Murmur is in Shadow Labs where the mobs hit for much less. Do you mean Moroes? If it is one of his “clothy” adds, a pet a more than capable of tanking them. But try putting that same pet on a Steward in Kara, which I still believe hits harder than some of the bosses.
(2.) I stated that pets are capable of off-tanking or even tanking with good heals behind them, but when you get into the 25-man and 40-man raids, mana conservation is everything for healers and 9 times out of 10, they do not want to be responsible for healing both a hunter and his pet. I know our healers are of the mindset that if you are MM or SV spec, your pet is your responsibility. If you are BM spec, you get to choose who gets the heals, you or your pet.
Off-tanking in a five-man instance, even a heroic, is different than off-tanking in a raid. My bear can handle off-tanking in instances quite easily (and at the start of TBC, he could tank Ramparts all by his lonesome), but off-tanking, even in KZ, requires a lot of healer attention or he’s just a smear of blood and fur very quickly.
Oh, to add to my love of EotB during instances–yesterday in SSC, I was positioned on one of the outer islands on Lurker. Predictably, my windserpent couldn’t figure out how to get down into the water, swim to the inner ring, and get into melee range to keep my group buffed with Ferocious Inspiration. So I put up Eyes of the Beast during Lurker’s “dive” phase and after his adds were down, moved Wake over, and told her to stay on the inner ring.
And Ascension, my dragonhawk, did a champion job of off-tanking Claw in heroic Underbog last night. She only went down right as we finished Mussel’ek off. Generally, even in higher-level stuff, I’ve found that a healer who’s had it explained to them that the pet will be tanking or off-tanking something will be more than happy to heal said pet as if they were tanking (which they are).
While it’s true that max DPS is usually the way to go, when we do Kara it’s almost required that I bring my boar in for at least the first half — particularly Moroes.
Your pet may not be able to full tank in there, Clank is always our OOT — “off off tank” and as such gets the task of grabbing aggro off of one of the four guests that Moroes invites to dinner. Between charge, beastial wrath and a mend pet he hold his own while we burn down the non CC’d guests in order.
Just know if you run with a non-max DPS pet, you’re not gimping yourself to the point of uselessness. Even with the boar I regularly top the charts — and if you use a charge to save a priestie even if the piggie dies, you still did the right thing.
Guys get the 5 man stuff out your head. Mania is asking about RAIDS not instances.
this also isn’t helped with a lot of “i think” type posts. The proof is in stats guys and if you ain’t got cat raptor ravager or wind serpent then you ain’t going doing the best damage you can in raids.
Yeah your pet can fufil some different roles in the 5 man stuff but in raid situations you’re there to dps and your pet is there to add to your dps.
BM build = solo dps with all party/raid damage buff on ferocious inspiration
MM = solo dps with ap boost on true shot aura
Survival = solo dps with ap boost on expose weakness
5 mans instances are not raids.
Cower is pointless, if your pet is taking aggro in instances you’re doing something horribly wroing and your tank is terrible. No chance in hell will your pet take aggro unless you’re running in with growl active and possibly bestial wrath/beast within
Forget anything after Karazhan for off tanking. Your pet will die in 2 swings. That is not what pets are for in raids. Karazhan is nothing compared to the other instances, its a walk in the park compared to the other stuff and most guilds use it to farm heroic badges.
Regardless of your spec, your pets role in high end instances is to support YOUR dps. Your pet isn’t there to off tank, hide or use low spells like furious howl. (Lvl 56 skill that only boosts physical damage and to get the bonus you have to be within 15 yards of the wolf)
I’m amazed that MM hunters can be so arrogant as to think their pets dps isn’t worth bothering about. If you take 2 hunters with exact same gear and spec the one using his pet will always beat you on dps. Everything you do he’ll do and at the same time as he does it, his pet is dealing damage too.
Get Kara and the 5 man stuff out your head. You’re not going to use turtles, bears or scorpions at SSC, Grull, The Eye etc etc. Its the equivilant of being lvl 70 and using a lvl 50 gun. You’re messing up your dps potential by using the wrong pet or not using it at all.
As i said in my other post, your pet is basically a big dot, a big damage over time. Use it wisely and it will serve you well.
I’m not a raider, but I wanted to add a few ‘personal thoughts’ to this as well. Mainly because while I *don’t* raid, I’ve been doing some research into it for when I *do*. So those with experience can shoot me down as they like; they definitely know more than I do. ;)
For one: Screech does do damage. It is not a large amount, but with SCT up, it shows Screech inflicting damage to the enemy. Not that this is a big, important thing, but it does mean that even while screeching, your pet will be adding slightly to the DPS. Still, if I had to choose between Screech and Claw for raw damage, Claw would be #1. Screech is a fantastic debuff, but if the boss is throwing lots of spell damage, it may end up being a waste… and a splitting headache for the poor tanks.
Poisonous pets are underrepresented in raids, but I can’t help but wonder if a serpent’s Poison Spit or, even better, a Scorpid’s stacking Sting, might help in a large raid where the main job is to keep the damage coming. DPS is well and good, but if you have a ton of heavy fighters throwing it, DOTs from your pet might be a big help. If I had to choose one over the other, I’d go Scorpid for the stacking DOT, as well as having the focus dump of Claw.
Growl should probably be present, but turned off automatic use. It will waste early focus (before your GFTT gets going) and your pet is made for throwing damage, rather than tanking. However, keeping Growl there for ‘emergency use’ (I.E. manual activation) might help save a raider’s life against trash or secondary bosses if a clothie pulls aggro at a bad moment.
Above all else, I agree with the above: the pet is not a tank in any raid unit, but rather an extra DPS weapon for you. So leave the Warper at home and break out the heavy attackers. Or at the very least, the ones with no DPS penalty. Cats and Ravagers are the big favorites by far, from what I see.
Again, I’m not a hardcore raider, so YMMV. I’ve just been listening to enough of them talk. ;)
Given that KZ IS a raid, even if most people relegate it to the realm of “where ten people go to get epics,” discussion of it is pertinent–since it’s where most raiding hunters will spend a few weeks gearing up. Discussion of what pets to bring there where a pet may still be called on to temporarily tank things is relevant, and there’s no point in being rude about it.
And I have actually had my pet grab the attention of “clothie” trash in SSC and survive longer than two hits. I HAVE off-tanked adds in heroics with decent healing, and my pet has tanked 5-man world elites and rare elites with supplementary healing. Intimidation DOES still work on many mobs in larger raid environments, which means it IS still possible to use your pet (if you’re a Beastmaster) as an interrupt or a clothie-saving missile in dire situations. One of the great things about priest healers is that Prayer of Mending WILL bounce to your pet and off again, so the priest you just rescued may not even have to throw a heal on your pet to buy time for the OT to pick up the loose add you just grabbed.
Is that sufficient reason to bring a tank (or just solo) pet to a raid instead of your DPS pet? No, it’s not. But even in higher-end content, my pet is never just a self-mobile DOT and buff machine, not if I’m using it to the best of its capabilities.
The comment above about supplemental healing on the Raid Pet reminded me of something I actually had to teach to a level 70 raider, who apparently hadn’t heard the missive.
Mend Pet works even in the heat of battle, and is pretty much an instant cast. So if your pet does end up getting into things (either tanking or thrown into the thick of an AoE battle), you can throw a Mend Pet and at least help a little bit. Against many big bosses, it’s not going to do much, but even that one or two extra ticks is still one or two extra damage that goes toward the pet rather than a raid-mate. And as much as I adore the pet, we have the power to res them, where we *don’t* have the power to res the main tank. So sacrificing them is often part of the game.
Just remember: like any heal spell, it can also grab aggro, so make sure your MT has the attention of the scary mobs before you throw your quick mend pet. Otherwise you may find yourself staring down something very angry.
This is for a different perspective. As a Healadin who actually did her best to keep pets alive and killing, I always appreciated the high health/armor pets more than the high dps/low armor/low health pets. The best pet I’ve come across in a raid setting was a Gorilla. It doesn’t have the focus dumping abilities of a Cat, Raptor or Ravager, but it had good health and decent damage. It made an effective off tank in a few situations. But what I loved was being able to focus in on making sure everyone lived and didn’t have to divert a lot of heals to the Gorilla. Too often, I would have to abandon healing a high DPS pet because I would end up having to heal them every other time. I used up a lot of mana that way.
I know a lot of healers who would heal only the high health pets and just let the low health pets die simply because they knew they couldn’t keep up with the damage. While I would agree that a High DPS pet is very good for a raid, just expect that they’re going to die a lot simply because Healers can’t keep up with the damage they take.
As a Healer with a Hunter alt (I have one of every class), I’ve gone with pets who can take a beating and give a good amount of damage even if they aren’t the highest damage pet out there.
The main role a pet will have in raids is supplementing a hunter’s DPS — a “dot” you have to keep alive. With the new (well, not so new anymore) Avoidance skill as well as the automatic positioning changes it’s a lot easier than it used to be, and anyone who tells you you should spec MM for raids because your pet’s going to die anyway is living in 2007 or earlier. In case you ever hear that. ;)
Anyway, to best use a pet in its role as DPS, you will need to pick a pet with both a high base damage multiplier, and a “focus dump” skill like Claw, Gore, or Lightning Breath. If your pet is lacking either one, you will underperform in your role as raid DPS, and not by a negligible amount. That is final and inarguable, like trying to raid while PvP specced. Unfortunately no pets have skills that can make up for lacking either of these; wolves, boars, and gorillas are not competitive.
That said, if your raid does need you to perform a gimmick role like off-tanking one of Moroes’ adds, then bring the appropriate pet. But that is not and never will be the optimal group, though if you can make it work and enjoy the company, then don’t be concerned. :)
Besides picking the right pet and giving it the right skills, you will also need to make sure it can survive. As stated earlier, armor isn’t much use because your pet won’t be taking much in the way of direct physical attacks. Instead, stamina is preferable, and the appropriate resistances for the bosses you’re expecting to face. Then just keep an eye out on your pet’s health, toss a Mend Pet preemptively and know when to pull your pet back.
Side note: Someone mentioned issues with pallies buffing pets. With recent changes pets are now included with certain classes for greater blessings. I’m not sure about all of them, but most seem to share greater blessings with warriors — although at least warp stalkers share greater blessings with paladins. Maybe that’s something Mania would like to figure out. :D
This is the best thread I’ve ever read. I am learning so much, but one thing that comes to mind is… I have not yet reached lvl 70,so can we start a new RFC thread for the leveling hunter for pet skills and must have talents. Thanks in advance, and sorry if this post is in the wrong place, please move it if so.
* What is the role of a hunter pet in a raid?
To add to the DPS of the raid over all. They act as a second set of attacks for their hunter.
* Are there differences between 10-man raids, 25-man raids and 40-man raids in terms of the role of a hunter pet?
Yes. And no. The over all role, of being added DPS for a hunter, doesn’t change. But in 10-mans, you might find yourself using your pet as an interceptor to save your healers or casters far more often than in 25-man or 40-man raids.
* What pet stats (armor, health, DPS) are particularly important for raids?
It really depends on the hunter… but the most effective raid pets are ravagers, cats, raptors, scorpids, and wind serpents. So in all, you’re looking for high-damage pets.
* What active pet skills are most useful — or least useful — in raids?
Depends on the pet. But any pet with claw should ahve that as their main focus sink (Except scorpids, who are better off using scorpid poison as long as it isn’t a poison imune enemy.) Ravagers have gore and such. And lightning blast out of wind serpents. Bite generally has too slow a cooldown. Oh, and for the love of god, turn growl off before you even enter the instance.
* How about passive skills?
Avoidance is a must. Catlike reflexes helps buff DPS on melee pets. From there,it depends on where you’re going. For Kara and even ZA, you can get away with minimal resistances, so just buff up your stam to max and then divide the rest into resists. Once you hit the 25-man scene, Gruul and even Mags, you can keep your pets on their 10-man settings generally. But the moment you step into SSC and TK, be ready to start maxing out resists for each one. High arcane and fire are musts for fights in TK. You’ll not have to pull your pet out almost ever during VR with max arcane as long as you keep a mend pet up. And the rest of the mobs and bosses either deal in fire, arcane, or both. For SSC, you’re going the oppisite direction. High nature and frost resists are a must. If you can squeeze some shadow in too, that’d help as well. Added fire resists could help you out during FLK and Leo. And without nature resists, Vashj will eat your pet alive. Beyond that, Kazzak is nice to have shadow resist on your pet, Doomwalker you’re going to max out your pets stamina so they can survive earthquakes, and BT/Hyjal, I haven’t researched enough since my guild isn’t quite there (Downed Vashj and working on Kael.)
* Do you respec your pet for different raids?
See my overly detailed responce above.
* What other considerations go into choosing a raiding pet?
Make sure it fits your play style. Beastmasters are going directly for DPS pets, but Marksmen and Survival hunters may like the more utilitarian options on other pets like wolves. And if you can’t stand your pet, try looking for a new one. Raptors and Cats are essentially the same for raids now. And they’re only slightly less effective than ravagers. Wind serpents or scorpids might also be a good option for you.
[...] I’ll admit up-front that I know less than nothing about Arena strategy. (Expect another RFC feature on Arena pets later this week.) But I have to say that I was surprised by some of the pets [...]
[...] was extremely impressed with the great information I learned in our last RFC thread, RFC: Raiding Pets, and I’d like to pick your brains again — this time for the Arena. With the advent of [...]
Wouldnt a hard to die pet like a turtle require less mending/atention and outlive a DPSing pet thus dealing the same damage or comeing close to it?
My point is that a Turtle can outlive a Ravager and deal damage while a Ravager is beeing revived?
Can someone test this noobish theory?
@Blood God: Your theory would make sense if the DPS pets would routinely die in a fight. However, I have both a cat and a raptor, and with just a little attention and skill, they don’t die at all. Even in somewhat unfriendly encounters, like the Shade of Aran, you can more often than not save your pet by hitting passive and dash (which I have on manual for that fight) to make it get out of the way of an arcane explosion. In raids, my pet usually only dies on raid wipes.
It looks as though a lot has been said already, but I’ll put in what I can.
*What is the role of a hunter pet in a raid?
The role is what you make of it, and also depends on your personal spec. If you’re BM and you want to top the DPS charts, get a DPS pet, a ravager, raptor, or cat. If you’re MM, you may want utility, so you might shoot for an owl, wolf, or scorpid. If you’re Surv, you may want something with a focus dump, so maybe a windserpent. I haven’t played Surv, so I don’t know what you’d utilize, but make sure whatever you choose, you have a reason behind it.
*Are there differences between 10-man raids, 25-man raids and 40-man raids in terms of the role of a hunter pet?
I’ve never played a 40-man, but the difference between 10- and 25-man raids is minimal. In both, your pet takes a backseat to the tanks, and is mainly there to add to the DPS. In a 10-man, your pet is more likely to recieve heals, only because if the healers are good enough, they might have nothing to do and take pity on your poor damaged pet. However, regardless, your pet’s survivability is it’s most important role
*What pet stats (armor, health, DPS) are particularly important for raids?
It’s all about DPS. Armor isn’t needed, since the pet won’t be getting enough aggro to be attacked. Same reason why it doesn’t need health. If you find your pet is dying a lot in raids, either spam Mend Pet more, boost its stamina, or find a pet with more innate stamina
*What active pet skills are most useful — or least useful — in raids?
This really comes down to what you’re fighting. In Kara, for instance, solid DPS usually wins out, so any and all damaging skills are good. However, sometimes it helps the raid if you focus on survivability. Spamming Scorpid Sting and having an Owl use Screech really helps keep the Tanks alive in dire situations. Also, you should keep in mind whether or not your pet’s signature skill can actually be useful. No sense in bringing a scorpid into a fight against Void Reaver, since it won’t be able to poison him.
*How about passive skills?
Avoidance, Cobra Reflexes, and Resistances are the way to go
*Do you respec your pet for different raids?
Quite often, yeah. I doubt it’s necessary, but if you’re going into a raid you know will have a lot of this type of element, better safe than sorry. BMs should respec often, especially, since if they lose their pet to a random elemental onslaught, they lose the bulk of their DPS
*What other considerations go into choosing a raiding pet?
Everyone has their preference, but you’ve gotta look into helping the raid more than helping yourself. I’m an MM Hunter, and I use an Owl as my raiding pet, since I’m always the Hunter who spams Improved Hunter’s Mark and Scorpid Sting to help the raid. Adding Screech to that makes me a seriously-loved Hunter in my guild. To be honest, my preference has always been Windserpents, but because I found much better use out of other pets, I scrapped him for a Ravager so I had a solid DPS-er when I needed it. Honestly, it all comes down to what you like to use versus what would help the raid the most.
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