PTR 2.3.0: The Dead Zone Saga Continues
As I mentioned in my last post, the distance for hunters’ ranged attacks has been changed to “1-35″ yards according to the tooltip on ranged attacks.
This caused some concern among players about point-blank ranged attacks. But Blizzard responded: Kalgan posted a very short note on the Test Realm Forum that:
The tooltip will be corrected to indicate the 5 yard min range.
And then Drysc filled in more information on the General Forum:
There’s a tooltip error, it should be “5-35 yards”. We want melee and ranged to be kept separate, so that when in melee attack range you should not be able to use a ranged attack. There’s some amount of ‘give’ there, especially in fast paced PvP which can produce some temporary gray area but that’s fully known with this change.
Feeding the issue of the tooltip error is a bug currently where you can indeed range attack someone while being meleed, but that’s in the process of being resolved as well.
Table of Contents for Series: Patch 2.3
- PTR 2.3.0 Information Here!
- WoW Forums: Egad! Drysc in the Hunter Forum!
- Details on Leveling Improvements
- Patch 2.3 News: STV Flight Point
- PTR 2.3: Later Tonight!
- PTR 2.3.0: Mini-Map Improvements
- PTR 2.3.0: Bear Mount … Pet?
- PTR 2.3.0: New Pets
- PTR 2.3.0: Other Cool Things
- PTR 2.3.0: Pet Circling
- PTR 2.3.0: Reported Issues
- PTR 2.3.0: No More Dead Zone!
- PTR 2.3.0: New Obsidian Raptor
- PTR 2.3.0: No Melee Range Change, Says Hortus
- PTR 2.3.0: PTR Updated - No More Sexy Bear
- PTR 2.3.0: The Dead Zone Saga Continues
- PTR 2.3.0: Pet Leveling
- PTR 2.3.0: Elite No More
- Petopia Updated for Patch 2.3 (then AFK)
- Rotams for Alliance
- Patch 2.3: Catching Up
- Petopia: More Patch 2.3 Updates
- Patch 2.3: Known Issues
- Petopia: Dustwallow Marsh Pets Updated
27 Comments
I don’t PvP, but it will be nice to be able to use ranged attacks 3 yds closer, especially on those annoying places such as deadmines, Uldaman or other where you have some not so large tunnels with mobs around the corner and mobs on the “other” side of a T intersection making it hard to get to shooting range!
What I’m more concerned is the rumor somewhere where melee would be 0-3 yds for all chars: that could make stealth attacks on moving mobs a bit harder! :) (My main is a druid!)
Don’t remember where I read that one though, so can’t say if it’s true or not… Would think not, seeing that hunter ranged attacks are now 5-35, so if they make melee 0-3, would still give DZ! :)
Someone: That was a rumor going around, but Hortus says it’s not happening.
Melee range is still 0-5 yards. It’s just odd in how the calculate range for melee vs ranged attacks. Melee attack range is determined by the center of your character circle to the center of the character circle of your target. Ranged attack range is measured from the outside of your character circle to the outside of your targets character circle.
This is what perpetuated the myth that melee attacks had been changed to just 3 yards. The Ranged tooltip used to say 4-35 yards. Yet there was still a 1 yard dead zone. That’s because the character circle has a 1 yard radius. So while the tooltip said 4 yards, the min range is actually 6 when measured the same way melee is measured. 1yd Character circle + 4yd range + 1yd Character circle. Since there was still a 1yd dead zone, people took the ranged tooltip as the whole truth and concluded that melee had be shrunk to 3 yards. When in fact all that has changed is how Blizz measures distance.
What that really means is that the Dead Zone that exists in live, when measured as melee range is measured, is not really 8 yards but is in fact 10 (1+8+1).
I understand that the majority of a Hunter’s attack power is in ranged attacks, but lets not lose sight of the the fact that:
1. Hunters are only one of 4 (Hunter, Rogue, Warrior and Shaman) classes that can dual-wield.
2. Hunters have traps to help elude melee combat.
3. Hunters get Wing Clip to slow a melee attacker, helping them re-gather some distance.
4. Letting hunters shoot at point-blank range would only be fair if warriors, rogues, etc. could hit hunters with their melee weapons from a distance.
5. Hunters can get bullets that add as much as 53+ dps to each attack. Warriors can use a Dense Sharpening Stone that adds what? +8 dps?
I guess my point is, hunters get enough. I guarantee that there is no warrior of equal level, that can defeat my hunter in a duel. A rogue can only beat me if they manage to keep me completely out of the fight.
To all who apply: It’s all in how you play your character. Don’t expect Blizzard to make up for your shortcomings by changing the game to make things easier for you.
Messyah, I don’t think anyone here has advocated letting hunters shoot at point-blank range. So I’m a little surprised by your tone, which comes off as a bit combative.
For myself, I am looking forward to slightly less trouble getting a shot off in tight corners — my least favorite newbie area is Ban’ethil Barrow Den in Teldrassil because of the tight tunnels. But let’s be clear: whether I can shoot from 4 yards or 10 yards, I’m still going to be an awful hunter. *grin* It’s just how I play the game.
I’m not being combative at all, and if it appears that way, I apologize. I am simply making a bold statement. “That’s a bold statement.” ~Vincent Vega, Pulp Fiction. LOL
(Btw, Text has no tone, nor does it have inflection without proper punctuation. I don’t believe that the punctuation in my statement in any way reflecting a foul or deliberately nasty tone. So, Nyaaaaaah! ) LOL
Anyway…
I do get annoyed when I see Blizzard continually tweaking the better classes so that they get even better, when some of their classes are falling behind steadily.
Paladins are healers who wear plate, priests wear cloth, and yet it is Paladins that get a bubble of “total immunity” and priests get a bubble that absorbs a small amount of damage. As Spock would say, that is Highly Illogical.
Balance and Feral druids are falling way behind most in regards. If a Mage and a Balance Druid wore exactly the same gear, a Mage will out-damage the Druid by quite a bit. Same can be said for Cats vs. Rogues. Though in some cases, Druid tanks accel past other classes. Nobody wants to take a Restoration Druid on any 5-mans simply because they can only rez once every 30 minutes. Yes, the patch is dropping that to 20 min, BFD! Do you want to hear, “You’ll have to run back or wait 20 minutes for a res?” And if two wipe, one of them is always running back.
Blizard has no sense of balance. Either that, or they simply give in to favoritism. Either way, it is extremely frustrating for those of us who go out on a limb and try one of the “stepchild” classes.
Lastly, for my “To all who apply” statement, after reading it myself I see that it did come of as being brash, but it was not intended that way. However, the senitment still stands. :-)
I can certainly understand your frustration. I think I was just surprised that you chose to make your bold statement here. :> (Also, you keep getting picked up as spam, but I think I’ve caught and saved all your comments so far.)
Oh, my last post was not showing yesterday so I tried republishing once or twice. Maybe that triggered your SPAM-police. :-)
Why would a balance druid and a mage be wearing the same gear again?
As it is, my hunter is pleased at the lack of a deadzone. There are too many places in-game that force you into tight places with no room. A hunter is severely gimped in such situations, pet or no pet (yes, silithid hives and buildings, I’m talking about you).
Why would a balance druid and a mage be wearing the same gear again?
Zball - Because if you look at the Spell Strike set and other Mage cloth sets, they add far better damage and bonuses than any of the Caster-Leather available.
As it is, my hunter is pleased at the lack of a deadzone. There are too many places in-game that force you into tight places with no room. A hunter is severely gimped in such situations, pet or no pet (yes, silithid hives and buildings, I’m talking about you).
I totally agree with the change for PvE situations. It’s PvP where I see it as a major advantage over melee classes. Warriors and rogues are bo no means a threat from range, Hunters are deadly. Warriors and Rogues are deadly up close, Hunters not as much… until now. (There was balance.)
On an unrelated note, I got my first T-4 drop in Kara (Curator), along with a nice Necklace from Attument. In Cat, I now have 2,863 Attack Power and 37% dodge. In Bear, I now have 24,389 armor, 35% dodge, and just under 13k health. These stats are all unbuffed. I’m a happy Druid. :-)
Here’s hoping the Feral staff drops from Illhoof tomorrow. My attack power (Cat) will be over 3k unbuffed. Woooo Hoooo.
Messyah, [...] the state of hunter PvP [is] terrible. Hunters are DEAD LAST in arena participation - teams simply do not take them because they are so crippled by the deadzone. You can check out the stats on this for yourself if you don’t believe me. Any other DPS class can perform better in arenas. You may think [...] that [hunters are] “fine” because [they] can beat warriors and rogues in [other] contexts like duels and battlegrounds, but unless you’ve got an impressive record in the context of real PvP (i.e. high arena ratings), [I don't trust] your comments.
Okay, guys, let’s take it down a notch … or take it over to Big Red Kitty. *grin* His blog is way more appropriate than mine for these discussions.
Discussions like this are what bring you readers. :o)
[...]
On my server (Antonidas), there are a ton of Hunters who have earned Arena titles (Field Marshall, Challenger, etc). Hunters usually out-kill all other classes in BGs on my server. Hunters are one of the best solo classes in the game. Hunters have a trick for everything.
I’m not interested in more readers if getting them here includes a combative tone and personal attacks. To be clear, this is aimed more at Shrubbery than at you, Messyah, but I’ve asked you both to take it down a notch and I expect you to respect my request. I’ve edited two comments above to show you graphically what I mean by taking it down a notch in case it’s not clear.
[edit] I also added a Comment Policy on the About page to make my goals more clear.
Mania, I’m sorry if you interpreted my comment as a flame, but there’s a difference between pointing out ignorance and deliberately being cruel to someone. I am attempting to do the latter. If you told me I know nothing about organic chemistry, that’d be an entirely fair remark and not unnecessarily mean, providing the discussion was about organic chemistry. We’ve got an analogous situation with Messynah and hunter arena PvP, and since we /are/ talking about a change that directly relates to arena, it’s useful to have some knowledge of arena PvP before commenting on hunters’ performance in that aspect of the game. Messynah has none. It’s apparent she is only speaking from very limited experience, and refers to battlegrounds and duels to support her statements. I’m not sure why you edited out “meaningless” in my earlier post, but these are indeed meaningless PvP activities. The best PvP rewards now come from arenas, and WoW PvP is now primarily balanced around arena play. My point is that you need to have some knowledge of this aspect of the game to be able to comment with any credibility on hunter PvP. I honestly do not think this is an unfair point to make.
Messynah: “Field Marshall” is a title awarded for honour gained in battlegrounds, back when the old ladder system was in place. It has nothing to do with arenas, nor with any PvP that took place in the last year. “Challenger” is the lowest possible title one can achieve for arena rankings.
Here are some stats on class composition in high-ranking arena teams you might want to check out:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2517898198&sid=1&pageNo=1
Thank you, Shrubbery. You’ve done an excellent job in this latest comment of being very factual, not flamey, while still showing your passion for the topic. For example, when you first used the term meaningless it appeared as if it were a personal value judgement intended to denigrate the other options. But with the context you’ve added in this comment your underlying intent — to point out that arena play has become the de facto standard based on the actions of the devs — is much more clear. Since this is a blog about hunter pets written by someone who doesn’t participate in general PvP or arenas, that context is very helpful to me in figuring out your overall tone. I appreciate that. :>
Mania - I respect your request and I will leave that past discussion dead as a holy savior. To be clear, I meant nothing of what I said in a derrogatory or hateful context, and if it came off that way, I apologize. I’m Italian and Irish, so I LOVE a good heated discussion. I am drawn to them like flies to… well, you get the point. And yes, it is genetically infused in me that I must always be right, if only in my own head. LOL
I constantly laugh at myself because I get so passionate about things such as that last discussion and then after I fire off, I take a step back and say to myself, “This is just a game, stupid!” LOL
… It is just a game, … right? :-)
Shrubbery, it’s Messyah .. no “n”. :-)
Thanks, Messyah. I don’t want to cool off your enthusiasm for the subject, I just want to keep the discussion friendly, if possible. :>
You know, I was worried this might blow up and you guys might start yelling at me, but once again it’s been proven that I have a really great bunch of readers. I love you guys. *grin*
This is your castle. Your domain. You rule this land. We are simply visitors who come in honor of, and to bask in the glory that is Mania. :-)
(Now that I think about it, it does seem strange that someone named “Mania” prefers order and not chaos. LOL)
Mania has a castle? is there a link on the petopia site?? :p
Shrubbery, all I was saying was… If someone gets in to melee a hunter, that hunter can do the following.
1. Freeze trap - Drop a freeze trap and kite the attacking player over it. If it happens to be a rogue that snuck up on you, freeze him, Hunter Mark him so you’ll see him if he vanishes, and start blasting away.
2. Frost trap - Same as above, only slowing instead of immobilizing the assailant.
3. Feign Death - If the hunter’s timing is right, a good feign death will fool most players.
4. Wing Clip - Slow the movement of the attacker, giving the hunter the advantage to gain ground and let the bullets/arrows start to fly.
5. Aspect of the Cheetah/Pack - Increase your movement speed to help gain ground on frozen, slowed or immobilized opponents.
In addition to those things I mentioned, Hunter’s are going to get (in patch 2.3) a debuff added to Arcane shot, which will dispel one magical buff/effect from a target. Those with Aimed Shot will also get to reduce the healing a target receives by 50% for 10 seconds. The explosive and immolation traps are going to get a damage bonus of 10% of the Hunter’s RAP.
I mean, with all of that in mind, shouldn’t the “dead zone” remain as the only real weakness of a good hunter, if only for the sake of balance? Every class, with the exception of Warlocks, Shaman and Paladins have a weakness, and good players learn how to best protect that weakness. My level 29 Blood Elf hunter may die a few times, but at the end of the match, I am always in the top 3 and take it personal when I get beat out for 1st place.
Mania has a castle? is there a link on the petopia site??
OMG, she could call it Castlemania LOL (For those that are familiar with the video game, Castlevania.)
You should TOTALLY do it, Mania. :-)
Mania was actually the name I got when I hit the Random name button in chargen. It was a little borderline for an RP server but I liked it and I figured that I could always defend the choice if I had to. (Since then I have learned that there is no defense if your name is judged inappropriate, but that Mania is pretty tame compared to a lot of the names on my server.) But just to be safe, I originally pronounced it to rhyme with Maria.
It seems that someone already built a Castlemania. But I like the tag line: “Fun things always end in mania. ” (Homer Simpson)
Are you a fun thing, Mah-nee-yah? :-P
hehe i am glad that here common sense and the “lady” rules
i have seen to many threads spoilt on the wow site by false logic and people using data got from old or mistaken details
the only way to tell if the smaller dead zone does favor hunters is to get into the battlegrounds/arenas and see what happens , it may surprise some other classes that used to exploit it but i doubt they will not learn how to get around it again , i do not do arenas/battlegrounds or very rarely any pvp so ingame it will only make my grinding more interesting and less of the ohh!!! **** i cannot back up and shoot has to be good for me.
i am not trying to start it off again but this and the other changes coming will make the game more interesting for most , i for one will love the mini map extras and i am sure my alts of most classes will enjoy the small changes to their classes as well
the new patch will make this like a new game and we can only wait and see what happens , as i am sure if hunters start to rule they will either be nerfed or the other classes given a buff in some way to even things up , and i have heard from long term players how that has happened to a few classes in the past
anyway thanks for your efforts mania in keeping us informed
Hello,
I´ve been taking a look to your post and I would like to make a few comments,
Yes hunter do have really good performances in duel and and bg (specially if you are bm), but in arenas… that´s another history. I have hunter level 70 MS 2000 AP, 30% crit 6500 armor 11000 HP with 300 resilence and playing 2vs2 with Paly full s2. We are unable to reach 1900… when some lock, warrior… with half of the equipment we have they are 2200 or more… why i will tell…….. they can kite… hunters cant!(if you move you only can cast arcane, not mulishot, nor aimed… nothing and what happend when you use all your CD… yes that warrior is still on you with mortal strike, or that lock casting fear, or that druid with ciclone…) yes at that level they CC you as the hell specially if you are hunter. Some time it is so frustating to see how one lock hide in a pilar and is putting curses on you and draining you paly at the same time.
That´s why i think that Patch 2.3 help us but… still we are one of the worst class for arenas and this will be like this for a long long time.
There are some possible improvement like frozen arrow (which would froze for 10 sg… or something similar)
I´ve also had some problems with teams that did not want me just beacuse hunters sucks in arena… yea
SO… i really think that messyah has no idea of what is playing arena with a hunter if she is defending that hunters in pvp are overpowered.
(I also have a lock with 2000 ratting and worse gear)and it si so easy to play with him :D
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