Faster Leveling and Pets
There have been a number of information tidbits circulating since BlizzCon about how Blizzard intends to increase the pace of leveling from 1-58 so that new characters can get to the upper levels faster. In recent days, we’ve seen more official information about this.
First, Drysc said on the WoW forums that there will be a change to the experience curve and gain before the WotLK expansion. More interesting, however, is what the MMO site Curse learned in an interview with Tigole, a developer, at the Leipzig Games Convention:
Levels between 20 and 60 are going to have the experience required per-level reduced. Not only that, though – the experience rewarded by quests is being increased by around 30%.
This is interesting news on its own, but I admit to being somewhat concerned about how this might affect pet leveling. There are two possible difficulties here.
First, pets need 25% of the experience that a player would to get to a particular level. For example, a player needs 31700 experience to go from level 23 to 24, so a level 23 pet needs 25% of that or 7924 experience to get to level 24. Now, if the pet’s experience needed is calculated dynamically off of the player data, then there is no problem here — adjusting the player’s curve will also adjust the pet’s curve. But if instead the pet’s experience needed is a static value, calculated sometime in the past, and it doesn’t get adjusted when player’s experience curves do, then we could have an issue where pets suddenly need relatively more experience to keep up with their owners.
Now I will freely admit that I may be jumping the gun in calling this a problem — the pet’s value is probably calculated dynamically, or if it isn’t they will probably remember to update the static value anyway. But I have a small concern there.
My much larger concern involves the second bit of information we have: the experience rewarded by quests is being increased by around 30%. Since pets do not get to share in quest experience, and since quest experience is already a major factor in leveling a character, I am quite concerned that additional quest experience will make it even harder for pets to keep up with their owners. This will be especially true for anyone trying to keep two pets (or three, should Blizzard ever come through on their promise to let us actually use all three pet slots).
Now don’t get me wrong — I am all for increasing the pace of experience gain a bit. I tend to play WoW in a very distracted, wandering-about-doing-whatever-comes-into-my-head non-optimized fashion, and I am not going to say no to something that lets me do more of that and still feel like I am getting somewhere. But I really don’t want to see that day that young hunters have to make a choice between grinding mobs to keep their beloved Fluffy or taming a new pet closer to their level.
My preferred solution: Allow pets to share in quest experience. That would benefit hunters not just in the streamlined levels but also higher level hunters as well. If pets gained 25% of the experience that the hunter does whenever a hunter completed a quest with an active pet (i.e. a pet not in the stable, not neccesarily a pet by your side) … well, I think that would be a simple and elegant improvement to the pet system regardless.
At any rate, we probably have a decent amount of time before this change is implemented — I assume it will be on the PTR at some point — and so once we see exactly how it works I am sure we’ll have plenty of opportunity to give feedback and make suggestions. I am looking forward to that opportunity!
27 Comments
I always thought it would be a good idea for our pets to be able to get relaxed as our characters do. They can get it by either staying with their owner at the inn or gain it while they are in the stable as well, i think this would help us keep two pets easily cause as we are leveling one pet the other is getting rested at stable and will be easier to level when we choose to. I think this would be a good improvement, what do y’all think? :)
I think the whole pet leveling thing should be dropped. Let the pets “level” with the hunter and their loyalty. Tame a level 10 boar and bame he is level 70 (if the hunter is 70). He or should I say “she” will gain abilities as her loyalty increases and she gains talent points.
Yeah, this would especially be nice for going back and taming a lower level pet. No higher level boars for the loss :P. I did finally get Grunter though.
I do remember when I was levelling from 50-60 there was a pattern. I would be the same level as my pet and he would gain no exp. I would gain a level and he would start gaining exp. He would catch up to my level and ding long before i got to the next level. From this point until I got my next level I considered wasted pet experience so I would swap in my second pet so as not to waste that pet experience. I am not sure on the ratio but I do recall it wasn’t enough to get both pets to catch up to me. In that light i’m not as concerned with a pet not keeping up. I don’t think I paid attention to that concept as a younger hunter so not sure if it scales.
Pet leveling was a big headache for me, too, on my hunter–for a while I had both a Scarlet Tracking Hound and The Rake, but after a while I was running on so much rested exp that my pets just kept falling further and further behind me as I did quests. I finally had to give up and just use my hyena when I was level 56 or so, because both my pets were level 52 and couldn’t hold aggro or stay alive versus the mobs I needed to kill.
Yes… Its already a problem with anyone who has more than one pet… With pets not getting any rest XP, nor any quest XP, its very easy to level faster than ones’ pets.
Crediting some quest XP to pets too would be a nice change: you could even do the grinding for some quests while leveling one pet, then swap pets and deliver quests to “level” the other one! :)
As to having a “warlock” style pet that insta-levels to your own level, I think that would make some pets too common! As it is now, if a level 70 wants a, say, Ghost Saber, he first thinks twice then he thinks a few more times then maybe he starts doing it (taming a 19/20 pet and getting it to 70) then he finally gives up and thus not all that have cats have a Ghost Saber: only those who tamed one at the proper level or those who *do* want one and are up to the effort to level it 50 levels…
But it sucks sometimes being 52 and your pet still 50 because you happened to try an owl for a level or so, and then you’re almost dinging 53 and your pet barely past 51, so it’s yet another huge bunch of time playing with a pet a couple levels lower than your own…
I agree with Someone in that I don’t like insta-leveling a pet (Warlock style). I like the idea that I have to make certain decisions when choosing a pet, including, will I take up this pet now, or run the risk of having to level one all the way up to whatever later. I guess, having tamed a blue wind serpent when I hit 42 (it thus being some 20-odd levels behind me) makes me biased this way.
However, I do agree that it would be very nice to make leveling them a bit easier. I tend to play with toons that are rested most of the time, and while my wind serpent caught up with me around 61, it’s now lagging again (with me at 66) because of the huge amount of XP it needs to level.
Having a pet take advantage of rested XP would make a significant difference. Having it share in quest XP might make it level too quickly, although that depends on the amount it shares (but, say 10% might make it balanced). I’m not sure how they’d handle a pet gaining mulitple levels from a quest hand in, though.
Anyroad, I’d like leveling a pet to be easier, but not too easy. ;)
i think pets should be able to level off stuff much lower level such as a level 65 pet getting xp off a 55 mob where the hunter wouldnt at 70… i guess make the pet level off stuff within its xp level range rather then the hunters. maybe make it so that a pet has X amount of mobs that grant xp to level (rather then give it a set number of xp, its more about how many mobs killed.)
also, what i wish would REALLY happen, and i dont think it would hinder things… give stabled pet 1% xp of everything. the hunter gets xp for… true, i could level it to 70 being in my stables, but thats a LOT of grinding.
maybe let us make non-combat pets out of our pets that just leach xp while we have are main pet helping us kill. thatd be kool.
but yea, im all for faster 20-60 leveling… i always thought quests should give more xp… they give such a large percentage of pre 20 xp, then they kind of slow down and dont give a whole lot, then at 60 they start giving huge chunks again (or so it seemed while in outlands)
Although in some ways I would love to have pets instantly level it would indeed take a lot of the flavour out of the game of hunters having lots of different pets, old companions and ‘exclusive’ rare spawns, though I have often thought about why pets do not gain xp from mobs their own level (you have a lot of time to think when you are trying to grind-level Humar at level 56 ^^).
I agree with what Mania and Marzix are saying about quest xp tho. The 30% increase Tigole mentioned is keeping in line with Bliz’s emphasis on quests as an interesting and diverse way to level. I agree with this, as I find quests a lot more fun than grinding, though as a result I have also seen quests and rested xp causing quite a bit of ‘pet-level-lag’ on my second hunter char. :/
Pets and Exp. Changes « The Mystic Hunter - August 29th, 2007 @ 8:35 am UTC
[...] have been recent rumblings about lowering the leveling curve and increasing quest exp by 30%. As mania pointed out, both these could affect pet leveling significantly.I’m all for the exp change, but pets are [...]
I started to write a reply and it got really long, so I put it on my blog and it got even longer…
Anyway, just doing some brief calculations, giving anything more that 10% of quest exp would most likely be way too much. I think a better solution is to just give pets a 15% boost to all exp gained.
http://znodis.wordpress.com/2007/08/29/pets-and-exp-changes/
Before BC leveling 2 pets was easy but since the focus on quest xp has increased I get about a level out my main pet and a third of my second. I agree a flat increase to the current system of around 15 to 20% would cover most problems.
Instant leveling removes one of the aspects of taming pets that is most attractive – the consideration, planning and execution of trying to tame a pet that appeals to you. Planning when you are 15 to get ghost saber at 19 or 20 or deciding to wait on Humar at 23. to go tame a level 7 moonsaber runt when you are 70 is just deciding to get a different skin, especially if you just train them with all you want in your skill set.
However, that said, I don’t like the pain of trying to level pets once you reach 70, given the tie to the hunters experience.
Somewhere in between is probably the optimum. Give us the ability to have desirable pets – desirable because they are hard to tame, or rare, or look good with your new armor, who knows what the desire is, but it’s part of the environment of being a hunter. Perhaps that suggestion of 1% of the hunters experience is good – until you come to lvl 70 and don’t get anymore experience. you had BETTER tame what you want up as high as you can, because all you can do then is wait for the next expansion :)
For me, I enjoy the success of a particularly hard tame. Taming an Enraged Ravager at level 70 is *not* hard. Taming that same critter at lvl 16 or 17 is *very* hard, and the satisfaction is quite rewarding. My goals in pets are complex – good DPS and support my solo style of playing the game. Something that will both keep me alive and be good to use in combat as an extension of my hands and eyes. If they look good too, that’s a bonus (ghost saber as opposed to a more generic cat), but not critical. My original hunter used to tame up a new version of raptor each time he leveled, and then tamed for the pet skills he needs for the next pets. Eventually, I end up using one pet to the exclusion of the others, though I’m trying to adapt that now.
I’m not fond of the instant level idea, like warlock pets. I like to earn the respect and bonding with my pets. I am not a fan of grinding but then, what *isn’t* grinding in this game?
I’d as soon see more stable slots here as well. other than a complex recoding issue I don’t see that as a problem and it would allow for folks to experiment with their pets some. Though now you just have to be careful about planning your stable use :)
this is an excellent thread – I wonder how Bliz will approach it. Likely in the simplest way possible, and least disruptive to game mechanics and coding.
I really like the idea of pets also getting rested XP. That is where I found my own pets would lag behind. I am a casual gamer, and so would generally use up my rested XP, rest for a few days, then use it up again. During my *normal* course of leveling, my pet would lag behind and I would be forced to get a new one.
If however these pets would get rested XP while I am also logged (and/or even in the stables) it would be a huge benefit to leveling them up while at the same time still forcing you to grind to get your pet to whatever level you are if you tame a lower-leveled one.
Additionally, I think that the pets *should* get XP at a rate similar to a player of their level. Sure, it can gain lots by killing a level 70 mob but its not like it’s going to be tanking it. Instead, you are going to be smashing your face against the mob while you are kiting it. Kite-grinding = longer than pet-tanking-grinding. So go smash in some lower leveled mobs, get your pet up, and then grind the higher ones. Seems a fairly simple solution on my end.
I agree with some of the comments here .. either pets gain xp in relation to what their master gets, or level pets as their master levels (much like warlock pets).
One other thing about training points, is probably to do away with it, but limit what the pet can learn – maybe only 3 skills out of a total of 6 for example.
Other ideas – do away with the need to feed pet – or, allow the pet to gain from stats from stat food (extra hp or AP is always nice).
Do away with stables.
Ceers, Silv
I think they should make ALL (or at least the non top rank) pet skills trainable from the Pet Trainer in town. This would remove the need to hunt out and tame some animal I don’t want. On a side note, I am surprised how many level 70 hunters don’t know how to obtain new higher level skills btw.
There’s a lot of good comments in here. I can tell it’s a subject near to our hearts. :> I’m really hoping that they have the changes ready to go on the PTR soon after 2.2 launches so we can really dig in and see how it goes.
I disagree with Shellshock, in that I don’t think all pet skills should be learnable from a Trainer. It takes a only bit of a hike and a few minutes to get most of the skills you want: Tame, Train, Set Free (I much prefer that over Abandon *wink*). My hunters tend to stable their current pet at the nearest Stable. If it’s a dangerous area, they’ll pick up a trash-pet, but that’s seldom necessary. Then they look for the pet they need (with a little help from our good friend Gazmik). Concuss, Freeze, Tame. Train them the highest Growl, set them on their nearest relative (or other mob) and Bob’s your uncle.
It’s fun.
It’s even more fun getting all the available skills.
And, no, it really doesn’t take that much time out of leveling your proper pet.
Apologies for the broken Bold-tag *sad*
What broken bold tag? *grin* (I had to guess at where you wanted it, though, so I may have guessed wrong.)
The new mechanic of reducing the xp required to level should be applied to pets as well. It would be a huge oversight if Blizz leaves pets out of that equation. Giving stabled pets rested xp would be a huge help and makes perfect sense. I don’t understand why that has never been implemented as the mechanics exist and there isn’t any reason not to.
Thanks for bringing up this topic!
I’m against having a pet that insta-levels like a Warlock pet as this will make some of the rarer pets more common.
I would like to see pets get some quest exp though. I mean, if my kitty helps me complete the quest, surely she should get something out of it too?
I’d also like something implemented where you can pay the pet trainer to level your pet for you. Say for example 20g per level. This would stop a lot of people doing this with a Ghost Saber for instance as it’s a hell of a lot to spend 20-70, and I’d argue that anyone willing to drop that much gold on their ghost deserves it as much as someone who’s levelled it, but it would primarily serve for if your pet drops a level too far behind you.
Heh, Ransen’s comment about paying to level made me think of a scenario where it would be a blend of SWG and WoW – be paid to level pets for lazy hunters. pay a LOT.
So, you want that ghost saber … gimme 5000g (so I can get epic flight form) and I just might do that for you :)
shibumi: I always thought it would be fun if hunters could sell pets to other people: either to another hunter as a hunter pet, or to any class as a non-combat pet.
It always puzzled my why pets never gained xp from quest handin’s, surely my raptor should get the xp too, he took most of the ass kicking. The rested xp idea is an excellent one as it would make leveling pets so much easier when you have almost 3 bars of rested to grind/quest out.
As for the insta-level thing warlock style, I’m sorry but if I want my pet to level at the same time as me, I’ll re-roll, I prefer the challenge of getting my pet to keep up with me :))
Mania’s Arcania » Drysc on Faster Leveling and Pets - September 9th, 2007 @ 4:30 pm UTC
[...] Manager, took some time to answer some questions about the upcoming faster leveling. I’ve ranted before about what effect this might have on hunter pets, but Drysc had this to say: [Quoted post [...]
Leave a Reply