PTR 2.2.0: Scorpid Poison Scaling Data

We recently found out that Scorpid Poison will be changing in Patch 2.2.0. I spent some time Tuesday and Wednesday while this blog was down gathering data on how Scorpid Poison scales with the hunter’s RAP on both the live worlds and on the Public Test Realms. I haven’t seen much yet on the specific changes to SP scaling, so I’d like to share the data I gathered. I’m not 100% certain that I am interpreting the data correctly, however, so please keep that in mind as you read this. Also, it is possible that the situation on the PTR will change again before it goes live.

Methodology:

I gathered data using my main character, Mania, on the Farstriders realm, and a copy of Mania named Maniacal on the Test Server (US PVE). Both started by unspecing all their talents and stripping naked. Then they each tamed a level 69 Scorchshell Pincer from Shadowmoon Valley. These scorpids come knowing Scorpid Poison 5 when they are tamed (as well as Fire Resistance 5, but that didn’t figure into these tests.) I did not teach them Growl, and I left them both at loyalty level 1 (Rebellious). I kept each scorpid fed only to the Content (yellow) level so that there was no effect on damage from happiness.

In order to gather data on damage, I recorded my RAP, my pet’s base and buffed melee AP, and the pet’s displayed spell bonus. Then I attacked a Shadow Serpent in the area until Scorpid Poison stacked on the serpent five times. I recorded the damage of the 5x stack for one tick of the effect, then I ran away until my pet unsummoned, leaving the Shadow Serpent alive for the next test. Finally, I added a piece of equipment that buffed my RAP and repeated the entire process. I was careful to use the same equipment in the same order for both characters so that I could directly compare my data.  

You may be wondering why the damage I recoded was the 5x stack damage for one tick instead of a single stack for one tick or a single stack over the duration of the spell. There were several reasons for this:

  1. Using a per-tick value instead of a total over the whole duration allowed me to ignore the difference in duration of Scorpid Poison 5 between the live and test realms. (The base damage of SP5 on live is 44 damage over 8 seconds, or 11 damage every tick. On the PTR, SP5 does 55 damage over 10 seconds, which is still 11 damage every tick.)
  2. But using a 5x stack instead of a single stack at least theoretically minimized the effect of rounding.
  3. In addition, doing things this way meant I didn’t have to fiddle with micromanaging the scorpid in order to get just one application going, nor did I have to do the addition to add up the damage myself. All I needed to do was pay attention when the stack hit 5x and write down one number.

Unfortunately I’m not sure exactly how stacks of damage handle rounding, and there was some variation on the 5x stack damage. So it is quite likely that any given recorded damage number is off by up to 1. When we’re dealing with relatively small changes in damage, that 1 can be a large factor. But with 10 readings from completely naked to completely equipped, I think I have enough data to at least draw some elementary conclusions.

Data:

Now let’s look at the data itself. First up is the data gathered from the live realm, on Farstriders.

RAP Bonus to Pet’s AP Pet’s Total AP Spell Bonus 5x Stack Damage
278 61 359 35 82
347 76 374 44 88
416 91 389 53 94
518 113 411 66 103
644 141 439 82 114
798 175 473 102 128
919 202 500 118 138
1018 223 521 131 147
1125 247 545 144 156
1289 283 581 165 170

Next we’ll look at the data gathered from the PTR realm.

RAP Bonus to Pet’s AP Pet’s Total AP Spell Bonus 5x Stack Damage
278 61 359 35 63
347 76 374 44 64
416 91 389 53 65
518 113 411 66 67
644 141 439 82 69
798 175 473 102 72
919 202 500 118 74
1018 223 521 131 76
1125 247 545 144 78
1289 283 581 165 80

Conclusions:

The first thing to notice is  that the only numbers that are different are the damage numbers. This is good — it means that the fundamental underpinnings of the hunter stats -> pet stats relationship haven’t changed. The only thing that did change is how much of a benefit Scorpid Poison recieves from that relationship.

The second thing I found is not exactly new either: damage seems to scale with RAP. However — and this is a big however — I am not 100% convinced that this is a linear relationship. Now I’m going to spare you my five Excel spreadsheets of calculations (although you are welcome to take the data above and play with it yourself, of course) and just say that it looks to me as if the more RAP you have, the less you benefit from additional RAP. On the other hand, going from stark naked to 1289 RAP, this effect was pretty subtle — much more subtle than the change from live to the PTR. So for the purposes of comparing the pre- and post-2.2.0, we can pretend that the reltionship here is linear for now. (But I do want to spend more time on this is the future.)

So, to sum up what I think I know:

  • On Live: +100 RAP = +8-9 SP5 damage (average 8.7)
  • On PTR: +100 RAP = +1-2 SP5 damage (average 1.7)

If you’ve got data that confirms or contradicts this, or if you think my methodology is wonky or I screwed up the calculations — please let me know!

16 thoughts on “PTR 2.2.0: Scorpid Poison Scaling Data

  1. Kestrel of Kul Tiras

    It’s 1:42 a.m. Saturday…so that may color my judgment (or cloud it?…whatever)…but if I were a hunter with a pet scorpid, I’d be screaming “NERF!” Right? (OTOH…I don’t have a pet scorpid, and I generally believe what appears to be a big change, usually means it’s a balancing change. But it’s views like this, that keep me from posting on the official boards.) :)

    Sure glad YOU have the patience to check this stuff out, Mania!

  2. Tiiaa

    This scaling now is so bad, its hard justify a debuff slot for the dot, when you can get similar dps values for your pet out of other abilities that don’t kick Curse of Elements and other stuff off of the mob.

    In regards to sloloing, I don’t really see it too big of an impact, since that by far best aggro generators are boars. Without my boar I’d be hardpressed to not get aggro when daily questing…

  3. Beran

    Yes, Boars are really best aggro generators, and if you use Charge, you have much more aggro. But about scorpids: NERF!! I have two pets, boar and scorpid (little lower lvl) and i hate what they did to Scorpid Poison

  4. Tiiaa

    Ok, the screeching pets might be pretty close, especially when you are not overgeared for your pet. Having T5 and upwards as equipment level makes them almost unable to hold aggro, sometimes even just against autoshot. What really works great for ae-pet tanking is the T5 2 setbonus – the healing is counted as aggro towards the pet, which is really awesome.

  5. Mania Post author

    Kestrel: This is a change meant to remove an overpowered tactic, I believe. But since the overpowered tactic was primarily used in raids and this change also affects the viability for scorpids as solo pets, it makes me sad.

    Now, as Tiiaa says, scorpids haven’t exactly been popular solo pets. But I don’t believe that makes it a good idea to ensure that they are bad solo pets. This change probably won’t have a huge effect on most soloers who know about pets — but it will effect Mr. Largely Oblivious Newb who loves his Mr. Pinchy because Mr. Pinchy has a cool claw wave … and that’s what makes me sad.

    Given the general situation, I don’t see a better solution — but I wish they would change the situation by allowing low DPS pets like scorpids to generate more aggro in general.

  6. Tiiaa

    Yes, I really liked the proposed idea of a threat modificator going in line with the armor modificator. That would make a lot of the “threatless” defensive pets really defensive due to actually holding aggro.

  7. Regolith

    I saw this originally as such a non-issue that I’m saddened by blizzards response to this. The only people out there really benefiting from the SP4 raid dmg were the MM and Surv. hunters that were in BT consuming pots, blowing trinkets, etc. I’m a BM hunter and even going all out with trinkets and such, my scorpid was doing about 300 dps… whoop dee doo! Scorpids are cool and were very briefly REALLY cool.. I’m sorry to see blizzard’s hatred of hunter coolness extend this far.

    Hunters have to give up a lot when choosing a scorpid, but the possibility of them one day “coming into their own” and doing nasty poison dmg was a really fun idea.

  8. Eternal n00bie

    I’ve been running with a Scorpid for about two months and I pretty much only use the pet in instances where the poison really has a chance to add up.
    I am of two minds on this change.

    First, I think it is terrible, besides the poison the scorpid doesn’t have much going for it. It doesn’t have any form of Dash or dive, it can’t learn bite — but it really is a nerf because the “Scorpid Trick” as it is called, takes some talent. Its not like you can unleash your pet and your doing some amazing DPS right away (I do about 500 to 600). You have to time it right , you have to set off all your trinkets and special abilities before the first poison attack so it takes a while to build up and if your pet misses on the boss dodges two or more in a row, you have to start all over again.

    Also, it’s not like every hunter on my server went out and tamed a scorpid, I am the only hunter in my guild with one and while you see more of them now, its not like every single hunter is running around with one.

    On the other hand, when I picked up the pet I was only willing to give up a stable slot for a creature that I had tamed and trained at level 70, which meant my DPS pet got abandoned — leaving me with two tank pets… so I’m looking forward to taming a ravager when 2.2 comes out.

  9. Mania Post author

    Yeah, I think that’s a good way to sum it up, Eternal n00bie: This is an unfortunate change, regardless of the whole raid ‘trick’, because scorpids just don’t have much else going for them.

  10. Rasta

    This makes me sad and disgusted. There weren’t even any other classes screaming “NERF SCORPIDS THEY’RE KILLING ME AND I CAN’T STOP IT!” Scorpids are currently THE best pet for sustained DPS on a single target for hunters, and as has been said, that is the ONLY good feature about them, aside from their looks and small size at level 70. No dash and low physical DPS was sort of the “price” you paid to have a great damage augmenter for raiding; and choosing a physical DPSer (a ravager, in my case) over a scorpid made a severely noticeable difference in my damage at the end of the boss fight. With this nerf, the physical DPSers will once again be the top dogs of damage, and hunters will be brought back down from the rogue and mage tiers of DPS, allowing things to go back to the way Blizzard apparently thinks they should be.

  11. Iskur

    This change is just disgusting. I’m not even a hunter but please game mechanics have to be static. Blizzard just cant come out and say “Hey we have decided that game mechanics don’t apply to this ability.” Well they can but they shouldn’t. This wasn’t an exploit.

    It is a stacking DOT it follows the same mechanics of all other stacking DOTsHOTs The damage is determined by the first DOT and the +spell adds +spell*(Duration/15) this is no different from any other DOT/HOT.

    Now blizzard comes along and says “Well we don’t like that so this DOT will only get about 15% of total +spell added because we say so.” Complete and total bullshit.

    Now this is a lot different than from when blizzard nerved wind serpents because that was a fix of a bug. Lightning breath is an instant cast and should have only gotten 42.8% of +spell not 100%. In this case the ability works exactly as it should and blizzard has flat out bent the rules of the game to get rid of it.

  12. Douglas

    Jesus Christ Iskur, are you really serious? You really think the damage Scorpids do on live realms is balanced? Yes, they made an exception for it, it’s not the only spell that’s happened to. Fireball/Frostbolt lose 1% of their spell damage coefficient per rank of Improved Fireball/Frostbolt, Corruption (96%, should be 120%) and Curse of Agony (120%, should be 240%) have a lower spell damage coefficient than they should. Why? Because they just did too much damn damage. No pet should be better to the degree that Scorpids are right now.

  13. Someone

    “the more RAP you have, the less you benefit from additional RAP”

    Somehow I missed this before… Could it be similar to the way Armor contributes to damage reduction? I’m not saying the same formula, of course, but working in a similar way?

  14. niwaar

    This change may have been an overdue and needed change, it is also one that is a bit overboard in my opinion. That being said, this will go a long long way to re-balancing raid pets than what has become a cookie cutter, every hunter has to have a scorpid reality.

    I personally have been leveling up with a wind serpent since I first tamed Washte Pawne all those levels ago. I will admit that at 58 I went to silithus and picked up a Scorpid with SP4 and have been using it inside instance and have been liking it quite a bit. After this news, I will more than likely ditch my trusty scorpid and go and grab a carrion or a boar as my secondary pet. I really would like to know if my trusty wind serpent will be able to hold threat as I gear up after 70 though.

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